Author Topic: Cheaters until proven innocent  (Read 1002 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Cheaters until proven innocent
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:01:55 PM »
Im old school. Believe in a handshake...your word...a promise...being truthful.

My Team Manager just gathered 176 unique pieces of paper in 2 weeks just so we could legally weigh in as a team this Thursday.

Add to that all the Staff Members must pass a BGC and USA Football certifications. Now we must all wear lanyards on game day which Im sure will get lost or forgotten at least once by any given coach.

All in the name of keeping the bad apples out which Im thinking might be less than 5% involved.  Basically not enough to even be concerned about.

We have officially reached a level of insanity. Im thinking player fingerprints are next.

I was reviewing our League's Rule-book this morning. 53 pages....and counting since it was last years Rule-book.

Not sure how anyone can keep track of anything really.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline headtrip

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 01:34:41 PM »
We have a lot of the same requirements. The coaches certifications  are more of an insurance/liability thing than anything else. Probably what the lanyards are for as well. We used to be able to have someone on the sideline to film the games, but apparently they're doing away with that this year. Only certified coaches are allowed.

You'd be surprised what people will do to win if no one is trying to keep them honest.

We have binders that we take to weigh in each week for the other team's coach to see that we are bringing certified players to weigh in. I've heard of a team having their binder stolen during a playoff game and then having to forfeit the rest of their games because they couldn't legally weigh in.

People do crazy stuff when things get competitive.

Online davecisar

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 06:23:29 PM »
Part of this is branding for the league

In theory it helps with credibility and safety concerns by parents

YES it is a lot of hoops to jump through
I had to certify about 35 coaches this year- it is a PITA
HOWEVER it is definitely a benefit to some

But very willing to do it to help out our league brand
Looking at the big picture and willing to give up 2 hours late at night to do the recert
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 09:34:22 PM »
It is indeed about insurance and crowd control, and I've dealt with the badges since 2010.  (Where I was before then, the official club shirt was sufficient.)  It's hard to imagine what advantage could be gotten by having an unauthorized adult on the sideline, although I'm told in the Morris County YFL a couple seasons ago one coach called out an apparenty tagless coach as if there were some competitive advantage to be gained.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 10:25:24 PM »
Part of this is branding for the league

In theory it helps with credibility and safety concerns by parents

YES it is a lot of hoops to jump through
I had to certify about 35 coaches this year- it is a PITA
HOWEVER it is definitely a benefit to some

But very willing to do it to help out our league brand
Looking at the big picture and willing to give up 2 hours late at night to do the recert

Items collected.

Each Player-
Birth Certificate
Proof of Grade
Proof of Residence
Concussion Waiver
Ethics Form from League
Ethics Form from Org
Emergency Contact Form
Recent Physical

Each Staff Member to include Team Managers and Moms-
All of the above if you have a son or daughter playing plus...
Background Check that you pay for
USA Certification for new coaches or Re-certifications for returning coaches that you pay for
Coaches Code of Ethics Form
Provide picture for Laynard ( I think)
Header must attend a Rules Seminar ( I have been told )

Dave, when I took my re-cert I was cleaning out may garage. Let the video run while out in the garage...come back after 10 and take the multiple choice test until I pass. Rinse. Repeat.

My garage is now in good order and I learned exactly nothing from my re-cert except now they are trying to tell me how to snap a football properly which I would think is about the last thing any parent is concerned about.

The only :branding: going on around here is branding everyone as cheaters until proven otherwise.

It has escalated to the absolute level of absurdity.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 10:30:38 PM »
We have a lot of the same requirements. The coaches certifications  are more of an insurance/liability thing than anything else. Probably what the lanyards are for as well. We used to be able to have someone on the sideline to film the games, but apparently they're doing away with that this year. Only certified coaches are allowed.

You'd be surprised what people will do to win if no one is trying to keep them honest.

We have binders that we take to weigh in each week for the other team's coach to see that we are bringing certified players to weigh in. I've heard of a team having their binder stolen during a playoff game and then having to forfeit the rest of their games because they couldn't legally weigh in.

People do crazy stuff when things get competitive.

I was a Board Member once for about 5 years in this League and a few years in another.

Made me go insane. But its still less than 5% that create the problems.

But you are dead on correct....people do some crazy stuff.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 10:45:13 PM by mahonz »
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 10:42:06 PM »
now they are trying to tell me how to snap a football properly

Properly, only if you are under center and twist the ball. That rules out us and Coach Cisar . . . and anyone who run's his stuff. :P
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 11:00:43 PM »
It is indeed about insurance and crowd control, and I've dealt with the badges since 2010.  (Where I was before then, the official club shirt was sufficient.)  It's hard to imagine what advantage could be gotten by having an unauthorized adult on the sideline, although I'm told in the Morris County YFL a couple seasons ago one coach called out an apparenty tagless coach as if there were some competitive advantage to be gained.

Apparently the lanyards are to prevent those coaches that cant pass a background check from being on the sidelines as a rouge coach not officially listed.

We have to carry around these books the size of a NYC phone book with all player info in them just in case someone thinks we are cheating. Yet there is nothing official about he Staff in these books other than a name.

BTW in 35 years....100's of games.... the opponent has asked me to prove one of my players was legit EXACTLY ONE TIME.

But that is a bit of an exaggeration because back in the day nobody asked for chit and trusted the Orgs to do their jobs and vet out the BS. We are living in a Police State more and more due to a ridiculously small minority.

My honest opinion.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Dimson

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 11:06:10 PM »
The ATL Ducks just got suspended from national tournaments for a year for cheating. They used ineligible players.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 12:20:45 AM »
Im old school. Believe in a handshake...your word...a promise...being truthful.

My Team Manager just gathered 176 unique pieces of paper in 2 weeks just so we could legally weigh in as a team this Thursday.

Add to that all the Staff Members must pass a BGC and USA Football certifications. Now we must all wear lanyards on game day which Im sure will get lost or forgotten at least once by any given coach.

All in the name of keeping the bad apples out which Im thinking might be less than 5% involved.  Basically not enough to even be concerned about.

We have officially reached a level of insanity. Im thinking player fingerprints are next.

I was reviewing our League's Rule-book this morning. 53 pages....and counting since it was last years Rule-book.

Not sure how anyone can keep track of anything really.

That has been the Pop Warner way of things for years.

--Dave
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:25:33 AM by CoachDP »
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 12:24:44 AM »
Apparently the lanyards are to prevent those coaches that cant pass a background check from being on the sidelines as a rouge coach not officially listed.

--Lanyards kept "unauthorized" folks off the sidelines and out of our practice field.  No lanyard?  Get out of here.

We have to carry around these books the size of a NYC phone book with all player info in them just in case someone thinks we are cheating. Yet there is nothing official about he Staff in these books other than a name.

--Ours has birth name/dob/birth certificate/photo ID.

--We were doing this 20 years ago.  Welcome to our world.

--Dave

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 12:27:35 AM »
YES it is a lot of hoops to jump through

And perhaps the biggest reason that I didn't want to return to youth ball as a header; the paper chase.

--Dave
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 01:06:45 AM »
That has been the Pop Warner way of things for years.

--Dave

Must be where my League is getting all these great ideas.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 09:22:45 AM »
That has been the Pop Warner way of things for years.

--Dave
Yup. Kinda surprised that all leagues don't do it this way. A pita for sure. Idk if it actually makes it safer for kids as far as the badging. Like someone would try to do something to a kid on the sidelines of a game. The credentials for the kids most likely comes in response to all the Little League scandalls from a few years back. We had 2 kids on our team once that another org said were 19 yo. This was with 12yo kids. You couldn't convince them otherwise. Same group of parents went and got driver licenses with fake addresses to move to another org to create a super team. They never made it out of the conference. :P

Offline bigshel

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Re: Cheaters until proven innocent
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 02:09:55 PM »
Apparently the lanyards are to prevent those coaches that cant pass a background check from being on the sidelines as a rouge coach not officially listed.

We have to carry around these books the size of a NYC phone book with all player info in them just in case someone thinks we are cheating. Yet there is nothing official about he Staff in these books other than a name.

BTW in 35 years....100's of games.... the opponent has asked me to prove one of my players was legit EXACTLY ONE TIME.

But that is a bit of an exaggeration because back in the day nobody asked for chit and trusted the Orgs to do their jobs and vet out the BS. We are living in a Police State more and more due to a ridiculously small minority.

My honest opinion.

Everything you're complaining about, I have had to do for all of my 20 years in Pop Warner. And it wasn't new then, either. Welcome to my world.