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Author Topic: Help locating a thread  (Read 4373 times)

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Offline austindperry

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Help locating a thread
« on: September 30, 2016, 10:40:19 AM »
Hi all,

I've posted a few times but still relatively new. I've been an AC for 3 years and got thrown into a HC role this season. I've been a DC for my previous teams so this year I allowed my AC pick the offense. I don't hate what we run, but I want to start mastering the system I want to install next year. That said, I have found a ton of great resources on here but I can't find a thread about choosing a system.
 
Has there been a thread where people extol the virtues of their favorite offensive system? I would like to read personal opinions since going to various sites don't often give you the weaknesses of their systems. If it doesn't exist I might start one, but I figured this question has been asked before and search doesn't seem to be finding it.

Thanks!

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 10:59:05 AM »
I don't think there's been a particular thread extolling the pluses/minuses of each system.  I can give you a list of Double Wing resources, to start:

Steve Calande
Jack Gregory
JJ Lawson
Tim Murphy
Jerry Vallotton
Hugh Wyatt

--Dave

« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 02:06:35 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

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Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 11:08:13 AM »
I chose my offensive system by what I like to see in an offense. You really cant go wrong with what you choose.

WHATEVER you choose find out as much as you can about it and I wouldn't change it.
NO Offensive play was ever designed for negative yards so if your offense is not working fix the play not the offense. Fix the execution. Fix it.

Too many people want to know the "magic Bullet" when it comes to offense or defense. I have the magic bullet its called repetition and diagnosing.

Some of the most successful OCs are the ones that have been running their O for a long time. Why?? Because they know it backwards and forwards.

I chose the wishbone early on because I thought it was going to be easy.

Then I found out there was the option wishbone and the power wishbone. I chose the power wishbone due to its lines of force and what it can do to the defense

Then I switched to the DC WingT, because of the conflict it puts the defense in and because there is a ton of help right here.
To me its a great offense because I can be flexible with it formations and otherwise.

You say you are a DC so do what I did and find an offense that would tear apart your defense.
I see youre running a 5-3. With the WingT I love facing the 5-3, there is so much I can do facing a 5-3 that they will have no response for.

These are all just my opinions

Good luck coach
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 11:11:19 AM by Wing-n-It »
Robert

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge

Offline austindperry

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 11:22:53 AM »
Thanks to both of you! I think I'll just continue to browse around and also take the rest of the season to see what offenses we come up against and how they attack our defense.

More than anything I want to be a good coach for our players which means I want to know the system inside and out. This year we've changed up blocking schemes a few times after realizing the first resources we used weren't thought out that well.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 11:26:13 AM »
There have been a bunch of "what should I run" threads, probably find some by pushing back pretty far in the general offense section.  Nothing recently that I can recall. And no, nothing really summarizing the systems.  Ironically considering his rep on here and a recent thread, Jack Reed did something like that on his web site.  I recall at some point thinking it wasn't too bad of a description, but woefully incomplete these days I'm sure.

The general consensus when this topic comes up has been to peruse the boards on here to find something that clicks for you, and then dig into that offense a bit more.  Most system offenses have multiple practitioners/"gurus" who have material that you can acquire.

There are so many pros and cons to each offensive system, and even those are fairly subjective.

What I wouldn't do is try to make up your own, or even grab bag between established systems (trying to combine Wing T and DW, for instance).  It can be done successfully, but I don't think I'd advise someone to try it until they got really comfortable with what they were trying to do.

Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 11:32:52 AM »
What are you leaning toward and why?
What do you dislike about your AC's "wishbone"?
Is there anything you like about it?
What type of offense suits your personality? Aggressive? Conservative?
What do you already know? Blocking schemes? Passing? Option?
What type of players do you have? How about compared to your opponents? Faster/bigger? Slower/Smaller?

I'm a double wing guy at heart, but my HC (but not "officially") has me throwing the ball all over the field. Never been happier.

I couldn't say I'd recommend either to anyone. Both have their ups and downs. It's all about what you have the energy and patience to fix.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 11:39:12 AM »
It's all about what you have the energy and patience to fix.

True enough.  You should know how to drive the vehicle, maintain it and fix it.

--Dave
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Offline austindperry

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 01:09:10 PM »
What are you leaning toward and why?
Honestly, I've flip flopped so often that's why I came to the board looking for guidance. I would like something versatile, that can be molded to fit the talent you have. I would also like a system that stresses the defense. Option offenses have appealed to me but I know how difficult that can be to teach.

What do you dislike about your AC's "wishbone"?
I do find that teams that load the box (we primarily run double tight) can stop our inside run game. We do have other formations to counter but we spent the first month focusing on our blocking in dbl tight so we try to stay there. I also haven't found wishbone playbook/system guide that has really made sense to me. The one we started with (given to us by a coach in our lg) didn't really seem to be well thought out. Maybe I just need to find a better online resource.

Is there anything you like about it?
I love the power run game and our ability to run anywhere and have an even strength to all sides.

What type of offense suits your personality? Aggressive? Conservative?
Currently I'm a huge advocate of get 4-5 yards each play. Now, that could be because the offense we run and the talent we have. I'd love to hit home runs but that just isn't in the cards for us with the talent/system we run. That said, I often long for a big play offense that wouldn't require 10-12 play drives. 

What do you already know? Blocking schemes? Passing? Option?
Right now my greatest strength as an offensive coach is blocking technique. I'm a stickler for blocking rules and executing each play. I'd love to learn how to coach option but I'm worried I could be moved to a younger team next year (I don't have a kid so I'm a floater for where the league needs me) and that might be difficult to coach to younger ages.

What type of players do you have? How about compared to your opponents? Faster/bigger? Slower/Smaller?
We play in a lg where everyone must start/play the entire game on either offense or defense. We have 21 kids. 6 of which are first timers. I'd say we have 5 kids bigger/stronger than most any other team and 2 kids who can run with anyone. The rest are average to below average. Since this question is really for future years and in our lg rosters change so often, I'm open to a versatile offense.

I'm a double wing guy at heart, but my HC (but not "officially") has me throwing the ball all over the field. Never been happier.

I couldn't say I'd recommend either to anyone. Both have their ups and downs. It's all about what you have the energy and patience to fix.

Thanks for that. Honestly it helped just typing it all out and thinking of the answers. I'm the type of person who wants to know EVERYTHING there is to know about what I'm teaching. I can't stand having to teach myself the night before practice the fundamentals I'll be teaching the next day. That's why this offseason I want to dedicate myself to learning so I can be more comfortable next season.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 02:06:05 PM »
So what blocking rules are you familiar with, and what rules appeal to you?

--Dave
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The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 02:10:49 PM »
Thanks for that. Honestly it helped just typing it all out and thinking of the answers. I'm the type of person who wants to know EVERYTHING there is to know about what I'm teaching. I can't stand having to teach myself the night before practice the fundamentals I'll be teaching the next day. That's why this offseason I want to dedicate myself to learning so I can be more comfortable next season.

What you've said in your response screams UBSW, Double Wing or maybe Wing-T. You're in a mandatory platooning situation. Mahonz is the platooning guru and he'd tell you to put 70% of your talent on defense.  Based on what you described, you are only allowed to have 1 player go both ways. I've heard league rules like yours described and I have a hard time wrapping my head around them. If the only way a kid can come out of the game is for an injury, I can imagine a bunch of coaches repping their "injury drill".

I digress.

Offense likes talent.
Defense NEEDS talent.

If you were to follow the 70% model, you'd have 7 of your top 11 on defense.
Then you have 4 of those 11 on offense, including your 2 way guy (which I would think would be your #1 player).
Then, take your bottom 10 and put 4 on defense and 6 on offense.

I've never run Wing-T, but my understanding is it's a little more "talent driven". Anyone feel free to disagree with me.

That leaves DW and SW. Both turn "loading the box" into an advantage. Single wing leans more heavily to rules based blocking. DW can go either way. If you want to know everything there is to know about what you're running, both are heavily documented. The SW board here on Dumcoach is easily the most active board, plus "Mr. UBSW, Dave Cisar" posts pretty much every day.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 02:16:56 PM »
Lar, I'd agree.  DW/SW if you're in a situation where you're going to have to hide talent.

The other option may be Clark's DC Wing T. Less talent demands than a traditional/Delaware Wing T, lots of very detailed instructions, lots of options, not all that unique looking to where parents bitch and moan.  But you better be VERY detail oriented to run Clark's stuff, LOL. He might have you out there with a ruler measuring the width of stances, haven't seen the most recent playbook... ;D  No, it's not that bad, but Clark is meticulous in the details...

Offline Monster

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 02:21:22 PM »
A thing that I have grown to love about the DC Wing T is that it's very accommodating for the different types of talent that typically happen on a roster.

You've got a spot for the big bruiser at FB, the sneaky athletic but really smart kid at QB, the speedster at either WB or HB (although Clark will give you a good stern talking to if you don't put your stud at WB) and you can get that one kid with just decent speed who's playing TE a handoff.

I love the flexibility of it and how it lends itself to getting the ball into a lot of players' hands relatively easily.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 02:31:18 PM by Monster »
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Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 02:26:23 PM »

I love the flexibility of it and how it lends itself to getting the ball into a lot of players' hands relatively easily.

The DC WingT is very flexible. The thing that makes it really appealing is its free and there is a ton of help right here on this board from people other than the creator has ran with success.

I love the DW but its coaching intensive and I spend a good amount of time on defense.
I love the SW and its not that coaching intensive but if you start to falter the parents (like the DW) will run you up the flag pole and you may never live it down.

The DC WingT looks like a traditional offense they would see on TV but its an easy youth offense
Robert

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge

Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 02:30:48 PM »
There you go. I stand corrected.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: Help locating a thread
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 02:42:06 PM »
There you go. I stand corrected.

Nah, you were right about the Wing T, just not about Clark's Wing T.  Very different.  Clark built it for the unwashed youth football masses, LOL.

I would love to give the Wing T a try, and every year I think about/am tempted to run it.  But I don't feel comfortable that I can nail the line play to run the more traditional version, and I don't have the time or patience I'd need to unlearn what I know and learn Clark's, especially when I'm not sure Clark's would give me much if anything more than what I do now. I like the sh*t Jake - JC? - on here runs, and that's the more traditional Wing T with the buck series, which I don't think Clark's does.