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Author Topic: Tips for becoming a better Coach!  (Read 13578 times)

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Offline jrk5150

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2014, 11:57:49 AM »
John

I think you are looking at it backwards. Coaches like DP & Rob aren't working on these things because they are top flight coaches, rather they are top flight coaches because they are working on these things.

Does this make sense?


Yes, it makes sense, but I don't completely agree.  I think as part of their development as top flight coaches they were able to get to where they could work on these things, and I do agree that the fact they work on these things is ONE of the aspects of why they are top flight coaches.  But I also think there's a chicken and egg aspect to this, I don't think it's as simple as your statement. 

I also agree that most of us stop before we reach that point.  And I agree that's what keeps most of us from being better coaches.  And I agree special teams needs to be on the list of things to get better at if a coach wants to move past that plateau of adequate or whatever.  But working on special teams is not going to be a difference maker for most youth coaches out there unless they've already figured out the other stuff.

And then you have to consider innate talent.  A couple of years ago, Eddie Van Halen said anyone could learn to play guitar like him if they just worked at it hard enough.  Bullsh*t.  Is there such a thing as innate coaching talent?  I say yes.  You know what I point to in thinking about that?  Bill Belichick's coaching tree, who have pretty much all sucked out on their own.  Smart guys who work their asses off.  But they aren't Bill Belichick.  And they never will be.

You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.  If you don't, you risk being all screwed up.  Trying to make a bad analogy/cliche fit, LOL, to me special teams is akin to walking fast, and advanced special teams work is where you're running.

Quote

Special teams are no different. During my time in Mint Hill we went 55-1, our 1 loss came in double OT on a missed PAT. Our Kicker broke his toe in the 3rd qtr. We had a backup kicker, that wasn't the problem, the back up kicker was also the LG on the PAT team. His replacement didn't step down & a Defender got a hand on the ball. It bounced off the cross bar. It was my fault we lost, & I took the responsibility for it. Never place the blame on a player.

Joe

I don't disagree with that.  And if I was going 55-1, I'd also probably be in a place where something like that can make "the" difference.

But I'm not 55-1, and I can't think of a single loss that I can pin on specials.  It was all coaching, LOL, but it was offense, defense, play calling, etc.

Offline DL

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2014, 12:35:30 PM »
Well then why in a divison that doesn't allow rushing the kicker do so few teams kick field goals? ???

Maybe they have no where to practice kicks.

We have to make a special point to find a place to practice them.   We sometimes walk over and practice kicking them on our game field, but other coaches threw a fit about that (we were ruining the game field and so on.)

The org. does have one "moveable set", but it is not always near the areas where we practice.    There are dozens of teams in the org.


Sometimes we just have to kick against air and kind of guestimate if it was a good kick.



Offline CoachMattC

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2014, 12:41:19 PM »
Maybe they have no where to practice kicks.

We have to make a special point to find a place to practice them.   We sometimes walk over and practice kicking them on our game field, but other coaches threw a fit about that (we were ruining the game field and so on.)

The org. does have one "moveable set", but it is not always near the areas where we practice.    There are dozens of teams in the org.


Sometimes we just have to kick against air and kind of guestimate if it was a good kick.

Its a challenge for us, too. Years ago I started getting extra reps by having the PAT run out onto the field the minute the game before us finished and start getting free reps all the way up through the coin toss.
‎"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Benjamin Franklin

Offline Michael

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2014, 12:46:47 PM »
Is there such a thing as innate coaching talent?

Trying to make a bad analogy/cliche fit

If there is, I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve using bad analogies/cliches.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #79 on: January 02, 2014, 01:22:11 PM »
John

Now we are at the talent thing again. I don't believe that's what I am talking about at all. I am talking about coaching. I can't begin to tell you how many time I have watched a youth team who was terrible, only to hear the coach complain they had no talent. Yet, when I watched them the problem wasn't the talent level, but the coaching. They had their talent in all the wrong places, because they played the players where they thought they should fit instead of where they actually fit.

How many youth teams simply make their best player "the running back" regardless of his actual skill level? Then that same player comes to my team & plays Oline. Do you pick your QB on who can throw the ball the furthest? I look for other intangibles, I can teach most athlete's to throw the ball.

I'm sure it's not a matter of Eddie Van Halen playing guitar against Eric Clapton, & Jimi Hendrix is judging. Rather it's a game of 2 youth football teams. So why even think about the other team? My concern is first & foremost with my team. What is it we need to do better? If you keep that in focus, all aspects will be better.

Mike

I love the 2 point youth rule. I think it encourages the kicking game & makes you be a better coach. We really had much better success with 9's then 1/4 on PAT's. We also played with full rush rules, I think the 8's were no rush but I couldn't say for sure. When you got to the Nationals you would have been amazed at how some of those teams could kick. Again it's all part of the process.

Joe
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #80 on: January 02, 2014, 01:42:34 PM »
I hear the same lame "we don't have a kicker" excuse on all levels. It drives me insane.

If that's the excuse for never even trying to kick, I think you might have a point, but not to the extent of being driven "insane".

First, I don't think it's fair to say with absolute certainty that every team has a kid that can kick a PAT.  If there isn't a kid with the leg speed to get the kick 20 yards 10 feet in the air, then all the coaching in the world isn't going to overcome the laws of physics.

That said, every year we have had a kid or two with at least barely the necessary leg speed.  We do reps every week, they probably kick 20-30 balls at uprights with a snap and hold.

My comment about "whether we have a kicker" actually was careless on my part - what I mean is, do we have a 3 man unit (kicker, snapper, holder) who we feel can convert a kick at a greater than 50% rate of what we feel we can do with our offense from 3 yards out?  If not, then that kicking tee only comes out in games where we feel the outcome is decided.  Theoretically, it would also come out if we had to have the 2 points, but so far that hasn't happened.  But we continue to rep in practice and try it in games where we can afford the miss, just in case we need it.

And by the way, we haven't had a single game yet where we needed it.  But I have seen two times in the 10 years I've been coaching in Pop Warner where the PAT's made a difference.  One was when my son played midgets (Pop Warner), they lost a game 31-30 where they had 4 TD's to the other team's 5.  They missed one kick - if they convert it, they win the game on PAT's.  It was a bad snap.  My son was the snapper.  Oops. 

The second was a tie breaker for playoffs, which in our conference means you do alternating possessions from the 10 yard line.  One team made the kick.  The other team didn't.  It was originally a 3 way tie breaker for 2 playoff spots, in this case it was the final match up where both teams made the playoffs, the kick ended up being the difference for seeding.

So that's 80 games I've coached in, and probably at least triple that number that I've watched, and only two games where kicking PAT's made a real difference.

But like I said, even given that, we still work on it.

Offline DL

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2014, 01:46:02 PM »
Its a challenge for us, too. Years ago I started getting extra reps by having the PAT run out onto the field the minute the game before us finished and start getting free reps all the way up through the coin toss.

You have to find a way to work it in with it being 2 pts.

It's most important part of special teams in youth game.   With no field goals 2 pts. is almost same as a t.d.

They always come up middle and overload one edge.   

I found timing the kicks was very helpful.   I forget the timing now, but I think if you get the kick off in 2 secs or under you are usually fine.

Side note thought:

At high school level and above though extra points are so easy as to be virtually meaningless.   

After youth ball, the extra point is the most boring play in football.   

I would be in favor of eliminating the extra point kick from football altogether.   

You could have 7 points or 6 after a TD.    If you take 6 you can go for a 2 pt. conversion from the 4.

Or you have a 1 pt. conversion at the usual spot (2 yard line) and a 2 pt. conversion somewhere further back.   

Maybe you could even go for a 6 pt. conversion from the 30 or something.   Make it possible for some cool comebacks.   You could get 12 on one scoring possession.

Int or fumble recovery scores count for whatever you were going for on offense.    1, 2 or 6.

 














Offline jrk5150

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2014, 01:53:20 PM »
John

Now we are at the talent thing again. I don't believe that's what I am talking about at all. I am talking about coaching.


So am I.  But I'm talking about coaching talent.

There are people who, no matter how hard they work or study, are never going to be as good of a coach as someone else.  Just like no matter how much I work at guitar, I'll never be Eddie Van Halen.

Now, does that mean I shouldn't try to be a better coach?  Of course not.  And, stepping back, I probably shouldn't have even gone there since it really shouldn't matter how talented you are personally in determining the effort you put in.

So chalk that one up to me typing before I thought it through.

If there is, I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve using bad analogies/cliches.

Once again, I'm pretty sure you're taking a shot at me, yet I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2014, 01:58:39 PM »


I love the 2 point youth rule. I think it encourages the kicking game & makes you be a better coach. We really had much better success with 9's then 1/4 on PAT's. We also played with full rush rules, I think the 8's were no rush but I couldn't say for sure. When you got to the Nationals you would have been amazed at how some of those teams could kick. Again it's all part of the process.



Joe

We were probably 1/8 as 8's.....50/50 as 9's. Next year we might be able to kick a 25 yard FG.

Coach a kid that as a 7th grader could make 45 yard FG's. That is because we committed to it early so Dad started taking him to Kicker Camps.

I think ST's are more important than O or D because they are more difficult to control. We spend 20-30 minutes per practice on ST's.

As 7 and then 8 year olds we recovered on side kicks at an amazing rate. As 9's that rate went down as the opponents got better at handling them....but it was still an effective strategy. In 3 seasons Coaching Super Smurfs we have given up ONE KOR for a TD....and the TD we gave up....was on on side kick. OOOP's....we lost control !

On that note....we played in the Big Boy League this past season so punting was critical. We could punt better than any other team even though we had a few blocked. Still...we could change field position by 40 - 50 yards because our punter had such great hang time the return man would avoid making the catch. Plus the opponent never really knew if we were actually going to punt.

This was our Punt Formation. A and B Gaps were 1 yard. Trips to the wide side. Worked GREAT.


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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2014, 02:11:28 PM »
John

The first lesson I learned as a coach is that it's not what I know but what my team knows on the field that matters.

I almost feel like you are like Garth from "Wayne's World", " I am not worthy!". I have known great coaches who knew X's & O's inside out, could drill a team like nothing you have ever seen. Yet, they would never make the next step & win the big game. Why? They would over coach their team & over think it.

Great coaching isn't about talent, it's about work & vision.

Joe
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Offline Michael

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2014, 02:21:04 PM »
Once again, I'm pretty sure you're taking a shot at me, yet I have no idea what you're trying to say.

It's not a shot.

I'm just saying that if you were better at getting your point across, you'd probably be a better coach, and you wouldn't feel the need to compare other coaches to Eddie Van Halen.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Online PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2014, 02:33:45 PM »
In 2010 we had 2 games decided by pat. One was a regional game that we won because we blocked it and the other was the NC game which we lost because we made 2 of 3 and they made 3 of 3. That same year we played a team from Miami that was crazy talented(by far the most talented d2 team in Pop Warner I have ever seen, not even close). We won 22-12. W made 3 of 2 and they made zero. That put them down 2 scores instead of one and totally changed how they played the game. We put a team on the clock once before they had an offensive possesion. Came close to repeating it a few times. Onside kicks can be a great equalizer in youth ball. We are also focused on certain things with specials. At certain age groups we don't practice certain things because we don't do them, like kick return with little guys because we only onside with little guys. To me, it is very easy to become so much better than most at specials because some teams don't practice them AT ALL. To say that specials aren't going to win you a game that you can't win otherwise is wrong. Especially when it comes to the onside kick or a punt block. Marsh Creek hung with us in 2011 because they punted VERY well. They made us drive the entire field. While we racked up yards(almost 400) and many first downs, we didn't score until the 4th(our feet were full of gunshots also). Special teams and solid defense win in youth ball IF you decide to make it a priority. But there are other ways to win. I will argue with the point that maybe if a bigger emphasis was put on another aspect of the game then maybe it wouldn't of mattered. No matter what you do, there are special team plays in football. I see so many on every level that decide games. Early on specials are less important but as the season progresses and our offense and defense are installed it becomes more imortant and takes up a little more practice time. Not a ton more, but more. And as always, we are laser focused and waste as little time as possible. If nothing else, get good at onside kicking. That way you can keep your offense on the field, which is the easiest way to win a football game.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2014, 02:40:59 PM »

I almost feel like you are like Garth from "Wayne's World", " I am not worthy!". 

No, not really saying that.  And I'm obviously struggling to articulate my point.

I appreciate what you guys are saying.  And I acknowledge that I have a ton to learn, and you guys are coming from a "been there, done that" perspective, and you are certainly coaches that should be listened to.  I took this all down to a level of specific detail that I shouldn't have.  Bottom line is that I don't think we are very far off in how we're seeing this, I seem to be obsessing over some very minor points that aren't all that relevant.  You guys are some of the most successful youth coaches in the country, and I'd listen to you before me on issues like this any day of the week.  And I'll just leave it at that.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2014, 02:41:42 PM »
It's not a shot.

I'm just saying that if you were better at getting your point across, you'd probably be a better coach, and you wouldn't feel the need to compare other coaches to Eddie Van Halen.

Well, it's accurate, so who cares whether it is a shot or not.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2014, 02:43:58 PM »
I love the 2 point youth rule. I think it encourages the kicking game & makes you be a better coach.

Agreed.
I campaigned for it at the middle school level to no avail.  Guys didn't want to have to coach it.

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