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Author Topic: Tips for becoming a better Coach!  (Read 13516 times)

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Offline DL

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2014, 03:32:53 PM »
Agreed.
I campaigned for it at the middle school level to no avail.  Guys didn't want to have to coach it.

--Dave

I like it because with the rush it's a challenge and not everyone can do it.   Adds a different strategic dimension to the game of whether you want to work on it or not.   

If it was worth 1, almost no one in youth would do it before 8th grade.

But honestly once the kids are past 14 it's not that hard to teach and execute an extra point kick, even if we never ever did it in youth ball.

I think we practiced it once a week in high school and I can barely remember us ever missing one or getting one blocked.    Many of those guys didn't even play youth ball and our varsity kicker was a soccer player.   I don't even think any of my h.s. coach's taught us anything about the kicking game other than what formation to line up in.    It was just do it and we did it.










Offline DL

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #91 on: January 02, 2014, 03:56:52 PM »
John

Now we are at the talent thing again. I don't believe that's what I am talking about at all. I am talking about coaching. I can't begin to tell you how many time I have watched a youth team who was terrible, only to hear the coach complain they had no talent. Yet, when I watched them the problem wasn't the talent level, but the coaching. They had their talent in all the wrong places, because they played the players where they thought they should fit instead of where they actually fit.

How many youth teams simply make their best player "the running back" regardless of his actual skill level? Then that same player comes to my team & plays Oline. Do you pick your QB on who can throw the ball the furthest? I look for other intangibles, I can teach most athlete's to throw the ball.

Joe


Putting someone at wrong position initially or not necessarily best position for them or team can happen at any level.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/ucla/la-sp-1227-ucla-anthony-barr-20131227,0,4031003.story#axzz2pHBsFWds

I maintain that a lot of RB's should have been LB's.   A lot of TE's OT's, DE's or OLB's.   A lot of DL or DE's OL.   

A lot of LB should be DL.   A lot of safeties should be LB's, corners should be safeties, WR's DB's and so on.   


Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #92 on: January 02, 2014, 04:38:15 PM »
No, not really saying that.  And I'm obviously struggling to articulate my point.

I appreciate what you guys are saying.  And I acknowledge that I have a ton to learn, and you guys are coming from a "been there, done that" perspective, and you are certainly coaches that should be listened to.  I took this all down to a level of specific detail that I shouldn't have.  Bottom line is that I don't think we are very far off in how we're seeing this, I seem to be obsessing over some very minor points that aren't all that relevant.  You guys are some of the most successful youth coaches in the country, and I'd listen to you before me on issues like this any day of the week.  And I'll just leave it at that.
I never thought you didn't think they are important or that you don't coach it. I was just trying to show that if you do get better at specials they can make your all around team better, especially from a field position and # of possession standpoint.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2014, 07:22:35 PM »
Are you saying the kicking game is not important?  Or are you saying just as important as offense and defense?
I along with some others here am saying that it's much less likely to make a difference in the scores of your games than is everything other than the kicking game.  In addition, I'm saying that most youth coaches wouldn't even think of it separately from general offense & defense in reflecting on the results of their season.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #94 on: January 02, 2014, 07:26:02 PM »
John, I'll argue against you here because most youth coaches (that I have seen) seem to place as little emphasis of importance on ST as you do.  For that reason ALONE, an emphasis on Special Teams can give me a huge advantage.  If you aren't focusing at all on something I'm working very hard to become proficient at, I can probably beat you just by the discrepancy in that area alone.
Not if that discrepancy is kick plays.  The situation doesn't even come up often enough for your advantage in it to be telling.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #95 on: January 02, 2014, 07:43:02 PM »
John,  If I'm successfully onside kicking after most scores in every game, and you never recover yours when you try it, I'm getting several extra possessions when I kick-off and getting great field position for my offense when you kick-off.  This is making a difference in every game.
But certainly in youth football even more than with more experienced players, it won't be the case that his team never recovers his when he tries it.  I think you can focus an awful lot of your practice time on onside kickoffs and still never lower his percentage below 25% nor raise yours above 60%.  Here's why:

When you're defending against an onside kickoff, your practice specifically in recovering the ball in such a situation won't make your players much better at it than the practice they're already getting recovering fumbles.

When you're attempting an onside kickoff, the situation is the same with the added provision that your kicker has to get the ball into a good position for it.  If you're able to do indie practice with him, that doesn't take much of your practice resources.

Plus, if you're good at recovering loose balls in general, you may be recovering more fumbles than kickoffs.

On top of that, let's say you get really good at onside kickoffs.  You're going to get the chance to do them only after you score (or after you give up a safety).  If you're scoring often enough to manifest your advantage there, you're already probably winning.  And if you ever come up against a team that also happened to have raised their onside kickoff success to that 60% figure I threw out above, they could defeat your advantage after you scored by taking their option to kick off after your team scored.

Offline Michael

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #96 on: January 02, 2014, 07:46:14 PM »
But certainly in youth football even more than with more experienced players, it won't be the case that his team never recovers his when he tries it.  I think you can focus an awful lot of your practice time on onside kickoffs and still never lower his percentage below 25% nor raise yours above 60%.  Here's why:

When you're defending against an onside kickoff, your practice specifically in recovering the ball in such a situation won't make your players much better at it than the practice they're already getting recovering fumbles.

When you're attempting an onside kickoff, the situation is the same with the added provision that your kicker has to get the ball into a good position for it.  If you're able to do indie practice with him, that doesn't take much of your practice resources.

Plus, if you're good at recovering loose balls in general, you may be recovering more fumbles than kickoffs.

On top of that, let's say you get really good at onside kickoffs.  You're going to get the chance to do them only after you score (or after you give up a safety).  If you're scoring often enough to manifest your advantage there, you're already probably winning.  And if you ever come up against a team that also happened to have raised their onside kickoff success to that 60% figure I threw out above, they could defeat your advantage after you scored by taking their option to kick off after your team scored.

You could be doing 90 down the highway and Bob would be in the backseat explaining to you how your car isn't capable of going faster than 60.
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Offline JrTitan

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #97 on: January 02, 2014, 07:52:58 PM »
I along with some others here am saying that it's much less likely to make a difference in the scores of your games than is everything other than the kicking game.  In addition, I'm saying that most youth coaches wouldn't even think of it separately from general offense & defense in reflecting on the results of their season.

All I'm saying with a few others is be solid in the kicking game.  Don't overlook the kicking game.  Most games between evenly matched teams come done to a handful of plays.  At a minimum, don't let a miscue in the kicking game be one of those plays for the other team.  If you are good in the kicking game, you can make one of those plays.
"They call it coaching but it is teaching...You do not just tell them...you show them the reasons"

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2014, 07:53:43 PM »
At high school level and above though extra points are so easy as to be virtually meaningless.   

After youth ball, the extra point is the most boring play in football.   

I would be in favor of eliminating the extra point kick from football altogether.

I've been saying the same for many years, except without the word "kick".

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2014, 07:59:34 PM »
We just finished our 9 year old season....Im guessing here but we have tried about 40 PAT kicks and made maybe 10...over two seasons. We got on a bit of a roll late last season so next year we should be good.

We used a unique formation that took advantage of the NFHS A Gap Rule.  A and B Gaps are 1 yard splits. B backs blocked the interior rush. Edge rusher were unblocked because they were too far away. Worked GREAT.


......................X.T....G.....C.....G.....T.Y

...............................B............B

......................................H

......................................K
What NFHS A Gap Rule?

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2014, 08:27:03 PM »
Agreed.
I campaigned for it at the middle school level to no avail.  Guys didn't want to have to coach it.

--Dave

I got laughed at when I brought it up. They told me it was the one of the Dumbest ideas they had heard to date.  Hence the reason many of our games end in odd scores.  18-12 / 12-6.  Less than a 40% success rate at the 2 point conversion."

 >:(

 
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Offline JrTitan

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2014, 08:39:40 PM »
Side note thought:

At high school level and above though extra points are so easy as to be virtually meaningless.   

After youth ball, the extra point is the most boring play in football.   

I would be in favor of eliminating the extra point kick from football altogether.   

I might agree at the NFL level where the conversion rate is something like 99%; however, in the NCAA, the conversion rate historically has been only 95% and the defense can score if it blocks it.  At the high school level, I would argue the conversion rate is far less than the NCAA and much more an adventure.  Youth ball is probably less than 50% (if your good).  I like leagues which give you more points for kicking than running a play from scrimmage.
"They call it coaching but it is teaching...You do not just tell them...you show them the reasons"

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2014, 08:55:42 PM »
I might agree at the NFL level where the conversion rate is something like 99%; however, in the NCAA, the conversion rate historically has been only 95% and the defense can score if it blocks it.  At the high school level, I would argue the conversion rate is far less than the NCAA and much more an adventure.  Youth ball is probably less than 50% (if your good).  I like leagues which give you more points for kicking than running a play from scrimmage.

JR.

My son was 14-16 at PAT's after the Coach decided the lack of success on 2 Point conversions were costing him points and changing games.  I would say that an average HS kicker is over 85% still far greater than 2 point percentages.  Like you I think folks should be rewarded for teaching the kick at the youth level.

Dusty
 
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2014, 12:20:56 AM »
What NFHS A Gap Rule?

B

Cant cover the Center on a FG or obvious Punt. Splitting one yard at the A Gap creates a halo around him.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline DL

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Re: Tips for becoming a better Coach!
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2014, 09:58:40 AM »
B

Cant cover the Center on a FG or obvious Punt. Splitting one yard at the A Gap creates a halo around him.

Can't hit center I thought.   Didn't know you couldn't cover him.   Have to look at ihsa rule for that.