Consider helping MosleyTheCat keep the web hosting hamsters fed and happy. Please Donate.

Author Topic: 2018 Spring Preview  (Read 9462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2018, 11:19:49 AM »
3 of our Spring players have dropped out. One just joined us last Spring, but the other two have been around for awhile

Obviously, some of the players and parents are taking issue with how you do things.  Now while that is the case with everyone everywhere, it makes me bring up something we'd discussed before.

With your approach, you're inviting the kids who you think should be a part of this.  Clearly with this approach, you're striking out (with a few) because you've invited kids who don't want to be a part of it because of whatever perceptions they have about your approach.  Now I know you can't please everybody...

But if you'd taken the approach of inviting everyone, the one's who wanted to be there would still be there fighting for a spot and and the one's who thought it was going to be "The Deion Show," who made up reasons they didn't want to play, or didn't like getting moved around, wouldn't have gotten your hopes up.  Now you're three short of what you thought you'd have, instead of having more than you need.  (I'd rather be the latter than the former.)

Most importantly (I believe) that with your approach of selective invitations, you lose out on finding kids like this one: "He's been 'half in' for several years, but he really showed me something last Fall playing as a sub on the o-line."

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline gumby_in_co

  • Administrator
  • Gold
  • Posts: 3822
  • Total likes: 1310
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Positions
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2018, 11:30:36 AM »
If you guys platoon- how can a player get 40 plays as a backup?
You guys arent no huddle- Im not thinking you are getting 100 snaps on offense

If your team is doing really well- which sounds like it should- Im doubting your defense is on the field for 100 snaps

Most youth games are in the 100 total snaps area for both teams.
Player is question has always been a starter for us. No idea why he thinks he'll "ride the bench".

However:

Rotators. So we don't have true "backups". Let's say we have 3 LBs on the field at any given time. We rotate 4 kids at those 3 positions. It's not unheard of for us to get 120 plays in a game. Just going off the number of clips on HUDL. Also, when the offense is scoring on big plays, which is typical, the defense will get many more plays than the offense. Add special teams and we can easily get our worst player 25 plays per game.  "David" was an example. Game was in hand early and he earned some playing time based on effort an attitude in practice, so I kept him in for every defensive snap. Meanwhile on the other side of the ball, our two best RBs (tiny kids, BTS) had to play on the D-line just to get around 15 plays each.  We were fine with that and so were they because there would be games where they hardly left the field.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2018, 11:30:48 AM »
If you guys platoon- how can a player get 40 plays as a backup?
You guys arent no huddle- Im not thinking you are getting 100 snaps on offense

If your team is doing really well- which sounds like it should- Im doubting your defense is on the field for 100 snaps

Most youth games are in the 100 total snaps area for both teams.

For the MS levels....I figure 95-105 snaps and in an average 21-14 type of game 8-10 ST's plays not including punt or punt returns.

So...think no one is a back up but rather all players are rotator's to a degree. Really easy to accomplish on Defense but harder on Offense because the O is a bit more specialized and why a package like the Beast and 5 wide Empty really helps out the formula. Both are less specialized.

So with 30 players we delete all Linemen from the formula. They will play both ways but a bit more specialized on O. Basically our Center is always the Center but on Defense we can play most of the O-lineman at NG, for example. The Linemen are two way players but always more fresh because they get time off along the way.

So....lets say you have 10 Linemen. Now you have 20 players left to play "x" number of positions.

Now we take 3 Linebacker positions, for example and play 4 kids at these 3 positions. All 4 learn all 3 positions which is very doable since they practice being Linebackers full time every practice.

So if you get 50 Defensive snaps per game....each player will play roughly 35-40 of those snaps since they are on a near constant rotation plus another 5 or so on ST's.

Now apply that formula to all position groups less the Linemen and you get every player roughly 40 snaps per game. 

In a blowout win....the O is on the field less so we have to get creative. Same deal would apply to a blowout loss with the players on D.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9082
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2018, 11:43:39 AM »
For the MS levels....I figure 95-105 snaps and in an average 21-14 type of game 8-10 ST's plays not including punt or punt returns.

So...think no one is a back up but rather all players are rotator's to a degree. Really easy to accomplish on Defense but harder on Offense because the O is a bit more specialized and why a package like the Beast and 5 wide Empty really helps out the formula. Both are less specialized.

So with 30 players we delete all Linemen from the formula. They will play both ways but a bit more specialized on O. Basically our Center is always the Center but on Defense we can play most of the O-lineman at NG, for example. The Linemen are two way players but always more fresh because they get time off along the way.

So....lets say you have 10 Linemen. Now you have 20 players left to play "x" number of positions.

Now we take 3 Linebacker positions, for example and play 4 kids at these 3 positions. All 4 learn all 3 positions which is very doable since they practice being Linebackers full time every practice.

So if you get 50 Defensive snaps per game....each player will play roughly 35-40 of those snaps since they are on a near constant rotation plus another 5 or so on ST's.

Now apply that formula to all position groups less the Linemen and you get every player roughly 40 snaps per game. 

In a blowout win....the O is on the field less so we have to get creative. Same deal would apply to a blowout loss with the players on D.

What you are describing is a scenario where no one is "not a starter" they are all staring in essence
Not taking kids who are on the bench

Obviously doable with no MPPs- which I think is what you said you have

Not sure about 50 plays on defense- if you are winning a bunch
3 and outs and a few first downs might mean 10+ defensive possessions- but not 50+ plays
Thats doable if you are scoring 70 points-the 10 defensive possessions-  if not- not sure how the math works out
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 12:11:50 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #124 on: February 08, 2018, 11:46:53 AM »
In a blowout win....the O is on the field less so we have to get creative. Same deal would apply to a blowout loss with the players on D.

Gee, sounds like you'd better hope for hard-fought, evenly matched games.  And those aren't the games where I'm hoping to focus on what players have gotten how many plays.

--Dave
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:31:25 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #125 on: February 08, 2018, 12:11:44 PM »
What you are describing is a scenario where no one is "not a starter" they are all staring in essence
Not taking kids who are on the bench

Obviously doable with no MPPs- which I think is what you said you have

Not sure about 50 plays on defense- if you are winning a bunch
3 and outs and a few first downs would probably mean 10+ defensive possessions
Thats doable if you are scoring 70 points- if not- not sure how the math works out

Yes...a full two platoon team has no bench players and why this group that Lar is talking about is full of shit. They know this already. These teams that carry 50 players like in HS will have bench players that may never see the field. That is why we have capped at around 30.

As the season ebbs and flows....50 snaps per side of the football is pretty accurate plus 8-10 ST plays when its all said and done. Some games get top heavy. Some games have a lot of passing. Others not so much...and so on.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #126 on: February 08, 2018, 12:13:09 PM »
Gee, sounds like you'd better hope for hard-fought, evenly matched games.  And those aren't the games where I'm hoping to focus on what players has gotten how many plays.

--Dave

Gives me something to do during the games.  :)
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline gumby_in_co

  • Administrator
  • Gold
  • Posts: 3822
  • Total likes: 1310
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Positions
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #127 on: February 08, 2018, 12:18:45 PM »
Obviously doable with no MPPs- which I think is what you said you have
There are usually 3. Last season, there were 4. Worst case, they would get 12 plays. Plenty in my book, but we try to do better. This season, we'll have 2, one of which kicked our butt in the Fall season, so he may be a regular on the D-line. He's Mahonz' lost little puppy this Spring.

Quote
Not sure about 50 plays on defense- if you are winning a bunch
3 and outs and a few first downs would probably mean 10+ defensive possessions
Thats doable if you are scoring 70 points- if not- not sure how the math works out

We haven't been great at 3 and outs, especially when a weaker player is getting lots of plays on defense. I think the most we've scored is in the low 50s, but we've been up 50-0 at half time. In a blow out, the focus turns to getting game experience for the weaker players. Lots of reps and tons of coaching. I'd like to say that we see kids make big strides in those situations, but that's not always the case. Something about "given" vs "earned . . .
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline gumby_in_co

  • Administrator
  • Gold
  • Posts: 3822
  • Total likes: 1310
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Positions
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #128 on: February 08, 2018, 12:31:44 PM »
Gee, sounds like you'd better hope for hard-fought, evenly matched games.  And those aren't the games where I'm hoping to focus on what players has gotten how many plays.

--Dave

In Spring, we only get 2 or 3 of those, unfortunately. Great talent, crappy coaching. You know how some ACs go buck wild and install "their stuff" when the HC misses a practice? That's Spring football around here. What I see totally supports Mahonz' assertion that an inexperienced coach spends all his time on the offense (backs and receivers in particular) and ignores the defense.

Managing playing time is Mahonz' role . . . until the OC or DC gets their head stuck in their asses. Then it's his role to "unstick" them.  I'll talk to him after Friday practice sometimes and tell him that "Jimmy had a great week, so try to get him some plays if we get the chance", or "Jimmy was crap and missed a practice, so give him 10."  He probably ignores me, but at least he's nice enough to pretend that he's listening.

I think that the 3 who are walking away are full of crap, but I'm concerned enough to re-evaluate our culture. I want to be sure that what we want to do and what's actually happening aren't far off. I'm even breaking a cardinal rule by talking to a parent that I happen to work with to get her take on things.

If 3 kids walked off independently, I'd be super concerned. The fact that they are 3 peas on a pod and play basketball together paints a certain picture for me.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2018, 12:48:53 PM »


Managing playing time is Mahonz' role . . . until the OC or DC gets their head stuck in their asses. Then it's his role to "unstick" them.  I'll talk to him after Friday practice sometimes and tell him that "Jimmy had a great week, so try to get him some plays if we get the chance", or "Jimmy was crap and missed a practice, so give him 10."  He probably ignores me, but at least he's nice enough to pretend that he's listening.


LOL....I hear everything you say and try to implement every request so that you can focus on game day.  :)

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline COACH JC

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 6934
  • Total likes: 725
  • Coaching: 13 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #130 on: February 09, 2018, 01:26:05 AM »
Yep.  “MPP” for us means you “only” get 20 plays.

Which is great for the lesser players. But I could see some players not wanting to play only one side of the ball. I know growing up, I never would have tolerated playing only 1 way. Pop Warner I never left thhe field. My freshman year I was told I could only play LB or QB. I chose LB then transfered to a school where I could play O & D the following year. Even at our little juco I played both ways.

Not saying that's what it is, but could be? Also not saying you guys shouldn't platoon. But it's possible you got a few knuckleheads like I was, that can't stand leaving the field.
It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #131 on: February 09, 2018, 02:33:58 AM »
In a blow out, the focus turns to getting game experience for the weaker players. Lots of reps and tons of coaching. I'd like to say that we see kids make big strides in those situations, but that's not always the case. Something about "given" vs "earned"

The bar should be if they're on your team, then they've already "earned" it.  If they haven't earned playing time, then how'd they get on the team in the first place?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline gumby_in_co

  • Administrator
  • Gold
  • Posts: 3822
  • Total likes: 1310
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Positions
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #132 on: February 09, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
The bar should be if they're on your team, then they've already "earned" it.  If they haven't earned playing time, then how'd they get on the team in the first place?

--Dave

So you've never had a player who simply had a crap week of practice? If one of your players "earned" their way on the team, but in week 4 misses 2 practices, he still gets all of his plays on game day?
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline gumby_in_co

  • Administrator
  • Gold
  • Posts: 3822
  • Total likes: 1310
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Positions
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #133 on: February 09, 2018, 11:10:51 AM »
Which is great for the lesser players. But I could see some players not wanting to play only one side of the ball. I know growing up, I never would have tolerated playing only 1 way. Pop Warner I never left thhe field. My freshman year I was told I could only play LB or QB. I chose LB then transfered to a school where I could play O & D the following year. Even at our little juco I played both ways.

Not saying that's what it is, but could be? Also not saying you guys shouldn't platoon. But it's possible you got a few knuckleheads like I was, that can't stand leaving the field.

I had the same concerns when Mahonz first started talking to me about platooning. The EXACT same concerns.

I have yet to see it materialize. Deion is a great example. Best player on the team (on either team more often than not) on either side of the ball. Loves to carry the team on his back. He LOVES platooning, although he would rather O and D. He ends up being MUCH better on one side of the ball because he's fresher, more focused and has had much more practice at his one position.

Twice, we threw him in on defense late in the 4th in close games because we were struggling to stop the opponent. Both times he helped us preserve the win. Once by locking up a stud receiver and once by spying a stud RPO QB.

After 5 seasons of some degree of platooning, I much prefer bigger rosters and platooning.

Having said that, maybe that's the issue with our 3 guys who are walking away. Maybe they want to play both sides of the ball. I'll have Mahonz ask them if he hasn't burned that bridge.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #134 on: February 09, 2018, 12:04:13 PM »
Which is great for the lesser players. But I could see some players not wanting to play only one side of the ball. I know growing up, I never would have tolerated playing only 1 way. Pop Warner I never left thhe field. My freshman year I was told I could only play LB or QB. I chose LB then transfered to a school where I could play O & D the following year. Even at our little juco I played both ways.

Not saying that's what it is, but could be? Also not saying you guys shouldn't platoon. But it's possible you got a few knuckleheads like I was, that can't stand leaving the field.


In 2017....we had 29 players in Spring. These kids all played on the same Fall team and they had 25 players.

I dont think you really gain much trying to two platoon with the little dudes. But once you get to the MS levels it has its advantages.

How I sell it mirrors what baseball does for pitchers with their pitch counts.

Two platoon is safer because hit counts go down by 50% when in the uncontrolled atmosphere....the games. We can all control the hitting during practice regardless but never in the games unless a player is literally not participating in the play.

2018 is going to be interesting. Our FB Dictator is liking big rosters which is a huge shift in philosophy for this Org. It used to be they would rather field 40 teams with 18 players so they could be the biggest. Now its tipping towards fielding 32 teams with 25 players especially with the older kids.

Next Fall we take on a second grade team and numbers have been shrinking fast the past few years. That means we could be looking at 30 players on one team because the option of fielding two teams with 15 goes against this new philosophy.

Our FB Dictator would pull this trigger and allow us to go with this many players because our Fall team has always had the highest roster with ZERO complaints.  If this happens then its going to be interesting organizing so many rookies all at once. We do have the staff to pull this off but its going to be exhausting. 
Collect moments, not wins.