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Author Topic: 2018 Spring Preview  (Read 9061 times)

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Offline Test Account

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2018, 12:31:52 AM »
Okay, but I'll you my opinion why the MPR rule is so great for youth ball (and keep I mind that I dealt with the rule for 12 years as a youth header and 3 more years as a youth AC).  Because the kid has to play, he is more likely to get coached.  And the best coaches will invest an inordinate amount of time coaching up that MPR so that Fat Freddy doesn't cost the team the game when he gets his 4/6/8/10/12 plays, or whatever.  So that kid gets coached.  If it were the same kid playing school ball, since he doesn't have to play (no MPR rule), he's not going to get coached.  The coach won't "waste" time coaching him because he knows he doesn't have to play him.  And why spend time coaching a kid who won't play?  And then the coach says to himself during a game, "Gosh, I can't put Fat Freddy in the game, he'll kill our chances."  And the coach will be right, because he never bothered to coach up Fat Freddy.  So Fat Freddy just sits, never plays and worse, never gets coached.

This year, I had one AC.  We coached every player, but not at once.  2 coaches...38 players.  But we coached whoever got the reps.  And the players decided who got those reps.

At high school, I don't cut.  I don't even determine who gets reps at practice.  For years, I've used the "Give me 11" approach where we go with the first 11 to line up.  About 7 years ago, Michael and I were talking about this approach and ways to take it.  So (as most conversations on the phone with Michael tend to go), he really gives you a lot to consider; a lot to think about.  I continued to use and experiment with the "Give me 11" approach.  It coincided with our "If you want in, get in" approach, which included fighting to get in the drill; or in this case, fighting to get in the line up.  This year, I can honestly tell you that our players determined who got reps, and who didn't.  If a player got "tapped out" by another player to replace him (for a rep, or several), the "tapped out" player might go get water and watch for a while, or he might go "tap out" someone else at another position and get reps there.  But it's something our players determine and whoever gets the most reps during the week, is the player that starts on gameday, no ifs, ands or buts.  I'm not saying that's the way every coach should do it; just saying that it's the way we do it.

--Dave
Coach Potter, I cannot disagree with you more on the mpr thing, especially considering on helping kids. If we are truly interested in helping kids, we have to deal with them in truth and love. And the mpr rule in the grand scheme is a lie. I get the why and it doesn't just happen in sports or with the or that.
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Offline Bill03

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2018, 08:06:12 AM »
I've read every post here. And it's a supject that been on my mind for the last 2 seasons. Especially the last one. MPR three letters I'll never forget.
I never heard of that until I coached in PW. The youth league I was apart of for ten years before didn't really have one. and let's face coaches 20 years ago coaching was different. We were different.  I think we would , well I would be sued right now if it was today players. So I have learned to be a better coach now. In Pw you have to be. I have to admit you guys have helped.

What I did is but my best coach in charge game day taking care of it. Because the other teams MPR spotters suck and will screw you everytime. I spent practice time rotating kids in and out. I have 5 or 6 kids that really shouldn't be putting on the costume ( love that ) ever. But for the most part they show up everyday. So I have to play them. Where I'm still working on that. I've had them tell me they don't want to play but their dad makes them. Spoke to there dad, says their to young to make a decision.  Believe me guys I spend a lot of time working with them. But 12 plays are very hard to work in especially in a close game. At least for me right now.

Our league is looking to change to a afyfl league. MPR rule isn't in affect in this league. Our organization will invorce one. But there will be no offical spotters , only parents. Lol.

After reading all the post here makes me feel a little guilty about how I felt about the MPR rule. You guys have been doing it for years!

Bill


Offline davecisar

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2018, 09:09:26 AM »
For 11 years our MPR rule was 16 plays
AND my own teams- with the exception of just a couple of seasons- retained 100% of our players
AND we won most of our games and a whole bunch of championships
MPR moms recruited more MPRs to our program because we treat them all so well- for last 8-9 seasons everyone carries the ball at least a couple of times a season
We didnt run any MPRs off= or naturally lost them over time- we GAINED them
One year 17 different kids scored a TD- everyone wants to get in on that

Buck up
Teach them well
Figure out scheme wise how to get them in without them doing a bunch of damage. one task where you can etc etc
Yes, they limit what you can do
If they come to practice and put in a reasonable effort- they get to play and yes there are kids who are weaker and less aggressive- they are who they are

Understand most of your opponents have some of the same issues- none of ours ever had the same number of MPRs save for the year 1 rookie teams

Did those kids cost us wins? yep, We have kids who are not overweight who on a dead "sprint" from the sidelines can barely get in before the 25 second clock expires
We have a kid who is 55 lbs in the 6th grade- loves football, plays no other sports, is in the bottom 1/3 in speed- when he is in the game- we have to run away from him and pair him on D with 2 studs. YES we all have the stories about the little kid we made into an ok or even good player blah blah blah. But even the best coaches cant turn every kid- everyone is different

But At the end of the day- those kids are better for having played

Getting rid of them- by whatever means- is usually for the coaches ego of winning more games
It is what it is

Every team has their own mission- if you want to be something that isnt inclusive- you can
You just have a very different equation than other teams who choose a different mission
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:23:10 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2018, 10:12:31 AM »
the mpr rule in the grand scheme is a lie.

How so?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2018, 10:16:31 AM »
I've had them tell me they don't want to play but their dad makes them.

Bill, then read the rulebook.  They've got to be taken off the team.  If they get hurt under your watch when they've already expressed that they don't want to play, you are liable.  (Well you and Pop Warner.)

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2018, 10:38:20 AM »
12 plays are very hard to work in especially in a close game. At least for me right now.

Bill, the rule is the same for both teams. 

Even if you have 35 players and your opponent has 21, then your opponent has to get his MPRs more play than you do.  When I coached in PW, that would have meant 4 plays for our guys and 10 for our opponent. 

One of the coach's responsibility (to the MPR) is to find out what they can do well and develop and hone it.  I don't really care what they can't do well. (Then don't ask them to do it.)  I just try to find out ASAP where that strength is and use it.  Every player who ended up being an MPR for me could do something, if only showing me how tough and motivated they were through our conditioning process.  But soft kids who didn't bring anything to the table?  No, we didn't have them and I think coaches more often jump to that conclusion instead of demonstrating the patience and expertise, as well as recognizing where that asset is.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Test Account

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2018, 10:52:37 AM »
How so?

--Dave
how does mpr apply as an adult? The fact is you face realities that mpr suggest dont exist. " You are guaranteed..." Doesn't exist in real life.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2018, 11:03:14 AM »
I've read every post here. And it's a supject that been on my mind for the last 2 seasons. Especially the last one. MPR three letters I'll never forget.
I never heard of that until I coached in PW. The youth league I was apart of for ten years before didn't really have one. and let's face coaches 20 years ago coaching was different. We were different.  I think we would , well I would be sued right now if it was today players. So I have learned to be a better coach now. In Pw you have to be. I have to admit you guys have helped.

What I did is but my best coach in charge game day taking care of it. Because the other teams MPR spotters suck and will screw you everytime. I spent practice time rotating kids in and out. I have 5 or 6 kids that really shouldn't be putting on the costume ( love that ) ever. But for the most part they show up everyday. So I have to play them. Where I'm still working on that. I've had them tell me they don't want to play but their dad makes them. Spoke to there dad, says their to young to make a decision.  Believe me guys I spend a lot of time working with them. But 12 plays are very hard to work in especially in a close game. At least for me right now.

Our league is looking to change to a afyfl league. MPR rule isn't in affect in this league. Our organization will invorce one. But there will be no offical spotters , only parents. Lol.

After reading all the post here makes me feel a little guilty about how I felt about the MPR rule. You guys have been doing it for years!

Bill


Good thoughts. For me its always a progression. With Super Smurfs they are all MPs'. Heck they cant even buckle their own chinstraps. 8th Graders? Different animal.

MPR's are necessary IMHO but do wear on me after a while in certain circumstances. Some kids punch in and out as the seasons roll by and that more times than not has to do with something going on outside of football. Divorce being the biggie. So you have to pay attention to whats going on off the field as well.

We really don have MP's. Every kid is good at something eventually. But everything is earned. When a kid stops earning is the real issue I had with my cut list. All of them could be contributors if they tried. One used to be a true  Manimal but IMHO was doing to for Dad and had punched out.

There comes a point in time when it has to be a two way street. We all talk a good game when it comes to how we treat our players but there has to be something coming back in return. When no returns happens...time to find something else to be good at. I was in a position to pull that trigger so I did. Cant do that in our Fall League and believe me there are times I wish I could. 

Just being brutally honest.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Bill03

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2018, 11:14:31 AM »
Appreciate you guys.

Bottom line is I have to adjust my ways , and coach them up better.

Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2018, 11:16:04 AM »
Coach Potter, I cannot disagree with you more on the mpr thing, especially considering on helping kids. If we are truly interested in helping kids, we have to deal with them in truth and love. And the mpr rule in the grand scheme is a lie. I get the why and it doesn't just happen in sports or with the or that.

MPR's are supposed to be a good marketing tool yet my best guesstimation says 95% of all parents that sign up for the first time dont know they even exist.

Then when they see their kid playing less than other kids....they now take the time to learn the Rules. Its a topic that must be covered in any pre season Parent Meeting for sure.

If every coach took the high road like you do then this Rule wouldn't exist. Sadly not everyone does this for the kids. So maybe in the grand scheme MPR's are a lie. They are certainly one of the most abused Rules thats for sure.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:18:20 AM by mahonz »
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Spyder89

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2018, 11:46:26 AM »
how does mpr apply as an adult? The fact is you face realities that mpr suggest dont exist. " You are guaranteed..." Doesn't exist in real life.

Minimum wage lol
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2018, 12:09:56 PM »
how does mpr apply as an adult? The fact is you face realities that mpr suggest dont exist. " You are guaranteed..." Doesn't exist in real life.

No, MPRs don't exist in real life.  But perhaps you believe that MPRs are receiving something that they didn't earn (Playing time?  A spot on the roster?)  All of our players earned their spot and their playing time.  You can't be on my team unless you are earning it.

The MPR rule keeps bad coaches from overlooking players and not giving them a chance.  It forces that coach to give them a chance.  In my opinion, that's a good thing.  These complaints I hear about "entitlement," "not earning their playing time," they "don't need to be out there"...etc.  That's foreign to me.  I don't understand that.  I understand there's coaches out there who can't always get what they want from their players.  (Heck, I'm one of them.)  But that's on me, not the player.  Our players are motivated to play and succeed.  They have earned their place on the team.  They were that way when I coached youth ball and they're that way now. 

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2018, 12:15:50 PM »
For me its always a progression. With Super Smurfs they are all MPs'. Heck they cant even buckle their own chinstraps. 8th Graders? Different animal.

They are if you believe they are.  Perception is reality.  If you believe that a "kid can't play," then he can't.  (At least, for you he can't.)  If you believe parents are a pain in the butt, then I can guarantee they will be for you.  Coaches have a way of making themselves always be right.

As for 8th graders (or high schoolers) being a different animal based on the example you provided ("they can't even buckle their own chinstraps"), I had high school players this year who put their game pants on backwards on Team Photo Day and didn't know it until it was pointed out.  I had kids who didn't know the difference between a thigh pad and a knee pad, or when one was upside down.  Mike, if you see "chinstraps" as a determination of why they're different animals, I beg to differ.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2018, 12:19:18 PM »
MPR's are necessary IMHO but do wear on me after a while in certain circumstances. Some kids punch in and out as the seasons roll by and that more times than not has to do with something going on outside of football. Divorce being the biggie. So you have to pay attention to whats going on off the field as well.

And kids who "punch in and out" has little to do with being an MPR.  There are plenty of talented football players (who were never MPRs) who play football and have learned life as a way to just "punch in and punch out."  That's not just an MPR-thing.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2018, 12:19:39 PM »
They are if you believe they are.  Perception is reality.  If you believe that a "kid can't play," then he can't.  (At least, for you he can't.)  If you believe parents are a pain in the butt, then I can guarantee they will be for you.  Coaches have a way of making themselves always be right.

As for 8th graders (or high schoolers) being a different animal based on the example you provided ("they can't even buckle their own chinstraps"), I had high school players this year who put their game pants on backwards on Team Photo Day and didn't know it until it was pointed out.  I had kids who didn't know the difference between a thigh pad and a knee pad, or when one was upside down.  Mike, if you see "chinstraps" as a determination of why they're different animals, I beg to differ.

--Dave

You are being too literal.
Collect moments, not wins.