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Author Topic: 2018 Spring Preview  (Read 9444 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2018, 09:03:10 PM »
In my first go around as a coach, there was an opposing coach who went 4 straight years without losing a single game. When that team finally imploded, a parent from that team reached out to me and admitted that she (at the request of the coach) willing and knowingly falsified the minimum play counts for years. What really amazed me is that her son was a minimum play kid who never got his minimum plays. That coach beat me 80+ to nothing and this kid didn't get his minimum plays. One of our quirky league rules is that in extreme blowouts, only a 40 point differential is posted to save embarrassment for the losing team. Over the years, this guy posted a lot of 40 point differentials, but this kid never got his minimum plays. In the playoffs (usually blowouts), this kid never played.

So yeah. the MPR rules are abused.

It a ridiculous system because its near impossible to police. You have a Rule in place simply to offset the despicable and then implement a policing system that requires some integrity.

I have yet to see a system that works. The biggest fiasco I've seen....having the opposing team count for you. What a cluster.
Collect moments, not wins.

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2018, 09:18:49 PM »
A HS coach's luxury.  8)

This policy would be illegal in youth ball. You pay....you play.

No, not at all.  We had team rules when I coached youth ball.  We held out players from playing for anything from academics, behavior at school or not doing what they were supposed to do at home.  And did so with the full support of the parents.  When parents understand that you are not just an advocate for their child but a resource for the parent, they support your decisions.  Of course, if you want to say that you can't do things, then I'm sure you won't be able to.

--Dave
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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2018, 09:30:50 PM »
So....if I applied your Rule....we forfeit that game. It would be great if the World was as black and white and you make it out too be. Its not....plenty of grey abounds.

Oh good grief Mike, it's not a black & white world, or about black & white rules.  We have a 6-miss rule for high school.  I didn't have that rule when I coached youth ball.  So you have "Outdoor Lab" during the season?  And when they're all gone for a week, then how are they even available to play when they're gone?

Besides, our 6-miss rule is applied "in season," not the Spring.  And even if we had a week where the players had to be gone for a week, we'd know that we'd have to overlook that week because there'd be nothing we could do about the kids participating in it.  Our rule is in place to keep players from skipping practices.  A coach is supposed to make rules that are fair and make sense.  You don't make rules that will force you to forfeit games when you know in advance that your team won't even be available to play.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2018, 09:33:25 PM »
I have yet to see a system that works. The biggest fiasco I've seen....having the opposing team count for you. What a cluster.

PW has a counter and a checker (one from each team) on each sideline working in concert.  Harder to cheat when both have to work together.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2018, 09:34:38 PM »
It a ridiculous system because its near impossible to police. You have a Rule in place simply to offset the despicable and then implement a policing system that requires some integrity.

I have yet to see a system that works. The biggest fiasco I've seen....having the opposing team count for you. What a cluster.

Kent and I did that once. A Spartans board member asked Kent to count plays when we played a coach who had a lot of MPR complaints. Our play counter identified 5 players who never touched the field in the first half. Coach went ballistic and actually looked like he might need to be restrained from going after our female play counter. Kent went over and ripped the play sheet in half.
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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2018, 09:34:57 PM »
The exception was a game where our header decided to help his wife with the play counting and screwing it up royally.

 ::)

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2018, 09:59:54 PM »
In my first go around as a coach, there was an opposing coach who went 4 straight years without losing a single game. When that team finally imploded, a parent from that team reached out to me and admitted that she (at the request of the coach) willing and knowingly falsified the minimum play counts for years. What really amazed me is that her son was a minimum play kid who never got his minimum plays. That coach beat me 80+ to nothing and this kid didn't get his minimum plays. One of our quirky league rules is that in extreme blowouts, only a 40 point differential is posted to save embarrassment for the losing team. Over the years, this guy posted a lot of 40 point differentials, but this kid never got his minimum plays. In the playoffs (usually blowouts), this kid never played.

So yeah. the MPR rules are abused.


Gotcha. In PW the other team marks off your plays & vice versa. So it's not much of an issue. I'm sure from time to time a kid doesn't get his plays, but that's based on incompetence from your own team.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2018, 10:07:14 PM »
Oh good grief Mike, it's not a black & white world, or about black & white rules.  We have a 6-miss rule for high school.  I didn't have that rule when I coached youth ball.  So you have "Outdoor Lab" during the season?  And when they're all gone for a week, then how are they even available to play when they're gone?

Besides, our 6-miss rule is applied "in season," not the Spring.  And even if we had a week where the players had to be gone for a week, we'd know that we'd have to overlook that week because there'd be nothing we could do about the kids participating in it.  Our rule is in place to keep players from skipping practices.  A coach is supposed to make rules that are fair and make sense.  You don't make rules that will force you to forfeit games when you know in advance that your team won't even be available to play.

--Dave

Oh good grief Dave....this is a youth football discussion.  8)

I cant tell the difference in your rules unless you say so !
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2018, 10:16:00 PM »
No, not at all.  We had team rules when I coached youth ball.  We held out players from playing for anything from academics, behavior at school or not doing what they were supposed to do at home.  And did so with the full support of the parents.  When parents understand that you are not just an advocate for their child but a resource for the parent, they support your decisions.  Of course, if you want to say that you can't do things, then I'm sure you won't be able to.

--Dave

Thing about holding them accountable academically...which I fully support....parents still hold all the cards. They can simply tell you to f off. A few have although one of these parents was a meth head.

A player can show up every day, work his tail off and get F's in every class and by rule can still play.

At the end of the day....if its not a League rule....its not a rule. Our League has no rule that specifically addresses academics. We have a Team rule that does. So a quality family is happy about oblige....the exceptions....not so much.

Black and white Dave....is always grey to some.   

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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2018, 10:25:29 PM »
PW has a counter and a checker (one from each team) on each sideline working in concert.  Harder to cheat when both have to work together.

--Dave

Worst system I have ever seen. 

I have been the substitution coach for my teams for decades. I set the playing time for all players. My league implemented this system one year. More than once when I checked at halftime the count was way off....not even close. I got so pissed off once I went to the White Hat and told him I would not accept the play counters workmanship. When he asked why I simply told him they have my starting QB marked down for 3 plays out of the 50 total already played.

He laughed...told me not to worry about it.

It was a gaggle fuck and fortunately didn't last past one season.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2018, 10:37:51 PM »
I have sat in on more League and more Association Board Meetings than I can even count.

EVERY off season the MPR becomes the hot topic because its so abused.

The best MPR is to never have one IMHO.

The reason is...if there is ever a problem in a game where any Admin Rule has been broken you need to file a grievance complaint with the White Hat after the game. Then the Grievance Committee will look at the situation BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE VIDEO SUPPORT.  No video...no complaint accepted.

Most teams film....some dont...many dad filmographers suck. I know. I have been on a few Grievance Committees and its rare when you can prove out anything cleanly off film.

The only option would be to hire a company to film all League games. Thats over 100 games per week. Translation= add $200 to every registration fee League wide.

Its a circle jerk.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:39:36 PM by mahonz »
Collect moments, not wins.

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2018, 12:11:28 AM »
Oh good grief Dave....this is a youth football discussion.  8)

I cant tell the difference in your rules unless you say so !

I...but...oh, okay you're right.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Online CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2018, 12:12:47 AM »
Thing about holding them accountable academically...which I fully support....parents still hold all the cards. They can simply tell you to f off.

Not sure how/why they tell you that, if you covered it in the pre-season meeting.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Online CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2018, 12:19:14 AM »
It was a gaggle fuck and fortunately didn't last past one season.

Not sure why it was such a struggle, but our subbing was pre-game conceived, the MPRs as a group took a knee in front of the play-counters and were all sent into the game at the same time, and stayed in the series for the duration until they received their total.  Once they had their total, they either continued to stay in, or they subbed out after that series was over.  In other games, the MPRs started and stayed in the game until they fulfilled their allotment.  If they continued to play well, they stayed in.  Regardless, the counters were always briefed before the game and then notified as the subbing was occurring.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: 2018 Spring Preview
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2018, 05:37:14 AM »
Not sure how/why they tell you that, if you covered it in the pre-season meeting.

--Dave

Fall League Rules:

46.2 Reasons for not participating in mandatory play are:
 46.2.1 Illness
46.2.2 Injury
46.2.3 Unexcused absent one practice (or more) per week without cause
46.2.4 Poor school performance as related by the parent*
46.2.5 Attitude (justifiable), and
46.2.6 Official ejection.

* If the parent does not agree with his/her child being suspended from football over grades, then any team academic standards are moot.
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