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Author Topic: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7. G8, C  (Read 12498 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6
« Reply #150 on: May 12, 2018, 05:33:03 PM »
It was the first time a team that I coach kicked a field goal in a game. Same for Mahonz and he's been kicking since before forward passes were legal. 8th grader kicking 44 yards and making it by at least 10. Kid will be NCAA D1 if he wants it.

We had a kicker about 12 years ago that made a couple of FG's but his longest was about 25. He could also punt it 50 yards like clockwork with big hang time.

He could have been a D1 kicker as well. Dropped out his Jr year in HS to become....a model ?  :P

Lets go for a 50 yarder next week. I think he makes it.  8)
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #151 on: May 12, 2018, 05:53:11 PM »
'Bout 8 years ago Coach Potter posted up a Video of his Durham Eagles Youth Team.  It was actually a Marketing Vid for his Org. I was sitting at my computer working away when I saw it and called my Son over to watch it.  Dont ask Dave to post it ....he wont...too many Wussies that Lurk just dont get it.

--Funny thing about that vid.  When I initially published it online, two coaches (one in our org and another who wasn't) said, "Cut more out of it, or take it down."  I knew it was "strong," so I cut it.  I wish that I had the original cut of the video.  Our teams back then were all about being relentless and the Big Boom.

we have run into 3 Wussy Teams in a row and they cant handle Potter Ball. Neither can this League.

--Nor the teams we play in high school, because we're still about ringing that bell.

We have created a Monster that has been years in the making.

--It's interesting that you phrase it that way, because it was much the same for us.  We were more aggressive, more physical, more looking for the Death Blow over each successive season.  Interesting how that cultivates...

These opponents have wonderful talent but are soft mentally. Team we played today....total Wussies.

--Most (youth) teams are.  Most coaches (at any level) are.

Dont care.

--Nor do I.  If you thought you were good enough to stand on the same field as us, we were going to make you pay a physical price.  Sounds arrogant?  Dunno, but we were accused of arrogance.  Mean streak?  No, not really, as it was nothing personal.  I tried to keep it from getting personal although our opponents often saw it as that way.


lots of people out there in Life expect you to come down to thier level or will try to hack you down to their level when you are doing something great as an individual or as a team.

--T r u e  e n o u g h.

This game never goes off without some kinda drama.

--On or off the field.

we ran Flapjack Pass on the last play of the game.

--Flapjack is the single greatest passing play in the history of football, but I haven't run it since 2014.  Need that back in the playbook.

--Dave
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Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #152 on: May 13, 2018, 09:20:43 AM »

--Funny thing about that vid.  When I initially published it online, two coaches (one in our org and another who wasn't) said, "Cut more out of it, or take it down."  I knew it was "strong," so I cut it.  I wish that I had the original cut of the video.  Our teams back then were all about being relentless and the Big Boom.


Yet it inspired others. Thank you for that.


--It's interesting that you phrase it that way, because it was much the same for us.  We were more aggressive, more physical, more looking for the Death Blow over each successive season.  Interesting how that cultivates...


It is interesting to watch it grow. Even the lessor players buy in. These last two or three games played I now believe the Officials have taken some excretions to the aggressive nature of our Team. We get graded each week and our Team has always posted up "A's". I wonder if that is still the case. Yesterday was an very odd game although everything was smoothed over before we left the field. All of our players always go over the the Officials and thank them.


--Nor do I.  If you thought you were good enough to stand on the same field as us, we were going to make you pay a physical price.  Sounds arrogant?  Dunno, but we were accused of arrogance.  Mean streak?  No, not really, as it was nothing personal.  I tried to keep it from getting personal although our opponents often saw it as that way.


Yet the... how do I teach aggression?... Threads are the most popular Forum Topics every September. Football is an aggressive sport and aggression requires a fair amount of arrogance ( confidence ) .  Even Cisar is an arrogant bastard and I mean that in a respectful way. He talks about getting 70-80% of his opponents into mercy by half time. That is pure arrogance and I would love to be able to do the same.

--On or off the field.

Most certainly on the field. Off the field they run away with tails tucked.

--Flapjack is the single greatest passing play in the history of football, but I haven't run it since 2014.  Need that back in the playbook.

Gumby introduced me too it so we put it in and it really pissed off the opposing Staff yesterday !
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline GP

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #153 on: May 13, 2018, 09:26:11 AM »
What's Flapjack?
"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #154 on: May 13, 2018, 09:36:45 AM »
Dang-it ! The number 2 seed is slipping away.

The team we needed to win last night lost...9-8.

Oh well....now it depends on what shakes out this Wednesday and Saturday.  Currently we sit as the #3 seed.

Im not so sure I would be a very good FBS coach. One off game and the gig is up for the Season. College FB needs a multi layer playoff system. Our Division in this Spring League has always been pretty strong with 5 or 6 of the 12-16 teams being pretty darn good. Every year some teams get left out of the Championship Bowl Game due to one loss. Its happened to us once before...might happen once again.

Every year we know going in...gotta run the table.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #155 on: May 13, 2018, 09:43:49 AM »
What's Flapjack?

https://youtu.be/4_Mz1JrKc7s

You create some kinds run action and the RB then flips the football over his head to the back of the endzone to a wide open receiver. Its a blind pass. Once I get film I will post our version. Its a silly fun play.

 
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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #156 on: May 13, 2018, 09:49:59 AM »
Even Cisar is an arrogant bastard and I mean that in a respectful way. He talks about getting 70-80% of his opponents into mercy by half time. That is pure arrogance and I would love to be able to do the same.



Im not sure how quoting facts to back up a premise is arrogance
Premise- beating someone by 50+ on purpose- onsiding every time even when up big is unsportsmanlike in my opinion'
Facts- My teams in many seasons could have beaten teams by 50+ points 70% of the time or more- but we found ways to NOT make that happen. Without endangering our kids or making the other team feel bad about themselves.  Real world experience over many seasons- not made up pie in the sky pondering.

IMO if we really care about the game and want to see it survive
We have to think about our kids first
Then the other team and league you are in

It doesnt matter a hill of beans if you have the greatest team in the history of youth football- but you have no one to play against
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline CoachDP

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #157 on: May 13, 2018, 10:07:52 AM »
Im not sure how quoting facts to back up a premise is arrogance

—Just go with it, Dave.  It’s okay!

My teams in many seasons could have beaten teams by 50+ points 70% of the time or more- but we found ways to NOT make that happen. Without endangering our kids or making the other team feel bad about themselves.

—DC, not sure how a 50-0 score endangers kids more than a 28-7 score.  As for “making them feel bad,” it’s usually their own header who’s doing that damage, not an opposing team.

IMO if we really care about the game and want to see it survive
We have to think about our kids first

—Agree 100%.  Which is why we commit ourselves to our players and parents having the best experience possible.  I wish other coaches did the same.

—DP

« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 05:50:56 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #158 on: May 13, 2018, 10:23:14 AM »


DP

You did the CNN thing and didnt put the whole quote in there
In order for the game to survive- we take care of our team first- but we need to legitimately look at doing what we can to help the other team have a reasonable experience as well
All of the excuse making "I dont want my kids to get hurt or I dont want to patronize the other team" is absolute hogwash. Ive been doing this for over 25 years and weve never had any of our kids hurt because we were playing them out of position in mercy rule game. Weve easily given up over 100 mercy rule "special play" TDS and maybe 2-3 did some of the coaches on the other team know we were giving it to them- their kids- not a chance.

Want the game to survive? Care about all the teams you play and your league
Otherwise you end up playing in a league with just a handful of teams, no competition and in the end YOU lose your team because there isnt anyone to play against
IN the end- cutting off your nose to spite your face

And yes 28-7 is much better than  56-0 and having your offense only on the field for a handful of snaps
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:24:47 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2018, 10:39:12 AM »
Im not sure how quoting facts to back up a premise is arrogance
Premise- beating someone by 50+ on purpose- onsiding every time even when up big is unsportsmanlike in my opinion'
Facts- My teams in many seasons could have beaten teams by 50+ points 70% of the time or more- but we found ways to NOT make that happen. Without endangering our kids or making the other team feel bad about themselves.  Real world experience over many seasons- not made up pie in the sky pondering.

IMO if we really care about the game and want to see it survive
We have to think about our kids first
Then the other team and league you are in

It doesnt matter a hill of beans if you have the greatest team in the history of youth football- but you have no one to play against

All great points but our Sport is dying because the kids never sign up anymore due to safety concerns....not because they got their butts whipped. Im starting over with a second grade team this Fall. I am confident I will have a team because our Org is so large. My fear....how many other Orgs will field a team? That precedence has been set and there is really nothing I/we can do about it at this point.

I have been on both side of a butt whipping. My take....always play your game without disrespecting the the game. Taking excessive knees, running out of bounds to avoid a score, punting on early downs.... for me is rubbing it in.

If you are crushing me by 40....crushing me by 50 wont feel any different. I still suck either way.

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2018, 10:58:10 AM »
Our next and last opponent will be interesting from the whole "running up the score"/sportsmanship perspective. Last season, we got up 40-0 in the first half by running Beast Blast. It's been stated by many guys on this forum that it is "impossible" to run that play over and over with success . . .  yet, it happens. A lot. Last year's mercy rule required us to "run between the tackles". No passes and no outside runs. So basically, continue to do what got you into a 40-0 lead. Run the subs? Yeah, we do that and we often go 4 and out. Does it bother me when that happens? A little, but I don't matter. It bothers the hell out of the players including the ones who are running the ball with no success. It simply pisses them off to not be successful on the field. So should we make our players feel bad to avoid making the other team feel bad? I won't do that, especially when the other team SHOULD feel bad.

One point I will not yield on is that in a 50-0 blowout, it's not the winning coaching staff who is responsible for driving kids away from the game.

Playing kids out of position? We've done that when our roster was around 20-22 players. With 33, it is a nightmare. With 30+ and patch rules, it is IMPOSSIBLE. One year, our two water skipper running backs were scoring every time they touched the ball, so they weren't going to get many plays. We put them at DE where they had something like 6 straight sacks spanning 2 defensive series. It was awesome and fun and great . . . .except for the patch player DE's who were not allowed to run the ball and got a little extra bench time while we accommodated our opponents' feelings.

Too much thought and effort to worry about the other team and it yields NOTHING for either side except that the losing coach is all smiles when he tells you how classy you are. I don't care when he says I'm an asshole (or calls my son a "bitch"), so why would I care when he's all happy. I have a philosophy about the handshake line. If the opposing coach is smiling and telling you how much he enjoys playing you, you have done something wrong. And speaking of the opposing coach in the handshake line. My 19 year old son decided not to shake hands after yesterday's game because he didn't have a chance to retrieve his coaches shirt from the other car after my daughter's graduation. He didn't feel right representing our team looking like a guy off the street. He did point out the two opposing coaches who took exception to our lack of class. One was wearing big gold chains and a Broncos jersey and the other decided to wear his best white on white track suit with big gold chains and a sideways hat. Forgive me if I ignore etiquette lessons from "Coach Eminem."

Whatever. Points against are no longer a factor for us. That ship has sailed. We will not be trying to put the other team in mercy on Wednesday. We will run our offense where every play is designed to score. Hopefully, our opponents will give us a game. Unlikely. They are too interested in walk up music, hype chants and celebration dances. Last Spring, one of their players did the "grave digger" sack thing down 50. We are going to do what we do and that will probably result in a blow out.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #161 on: May 13, 2018, 11:00:46 AM »
[quote author=mahonz link=topic=27897.msg401522#msg401522 date=1526222352
I have been on both side of a butt whipping. My take....always play your game without disrespecting the the game. Taking excessive knees, running out of bounds to avoid a score, punting on early downs.... for me is rubbing it in.

If you are crushing me by 40....crushing me by 50 wont feel any different. I still suck either way.
[/quote]

I have always felt this way, even before I met Mahonz or Kent. 
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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #162 on: May 13, 2018, 11:11:34 AM »
All great points but our Sport is dying because the kids never sign up anymore due to safety concerns....not because they got their butts whipped. Im starting over with a second grade team this Fall. I am confident I will have a team because our Org is so large. My fear....how many other Orgs will field a team? That precedence has been set and there is really nothing I/we can do about it at this point.

I have been on both side of a butt whipping. My take....always play your game without disrespecting the the game. Taking excessive knees, running out of bounds to avoid a score, punting on early downs.... for me is rubbing it in.

If you are crushing me by 40....crushing me by 50 wont feel any different. I still suck either way.

Thats you
I dont have kids take knees on scrimmage plays or run out of bounds, punt on early downs etc etc
Those are the usual excuses people come up with so they can score a bunch and feel good about it

If someone is a good enough coach to put up 50 they are good enough to figure out ways how not to win by over 50
REALLY simple stuff- that "disrespects" no one
The team you are crushing by 50 looks NO DIFFERENT and is executing NO DIFFERENT than your 3-4th team kids or kids playing out of position.

As to retention- I have studied this stuff to the nth degree
When I had a 400 kid org- retention was directly proportional to how well teams were doing- very little variance- 90%
Had I mapped it out with SAS using a linear regression- it would have been a nearly unmatched correlation

Before we made all of our changes and all the teams won- when we had variances
The teams that were getting blown out would retain less than half their kids
The teams that had marginally winning records would retain about 65% of their players
The teams that were winning most of their games were keeping about 75%
The teams winning championships were keeping about 95% of their kids (not counting kids who moved)

Yes there are a few odd ball teams that lost a bunch and still stuck around- but over time they were extreme outliers
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2018, 11:27:54 AM »
Thats you
I dont have kids take knees on scrimmage plays or run out of bounds, punt on early downs etc etc
Those are the usual excuses people come up with so they can score a bunch and feel good about it

If someone is a good enough coach to put up 50 they are good enough to figure out ways how not to win by over 50
REALLY simple stuff- that "disrespects" no one
The team you are crushing by 50 looks NO DIFFERENT and is executing NO DIFFERENT than your 3-4th team kids or kids playing out of position.

As to retention- I have studied this stuff to the nth degree
When I had a 400 kid org- retention was directly proportional to how well teams were doing- very little variance- 90%
Had I mapped it out with SAS using a linear regression- it would have been a nearly unmatched correlation

Before we made all of our changes and all the teams won- when we had variances
The teams that were getting blown out would retain less than half their kids
The teams that had marginally winning records would retain about 65% of their players
The teams that were winning most of their games were keeping about 75%
The teams winning championships were keeping about 95% of their kids (not counting kids who moved)

Yes there are a few odd ball teams that lost a bunch and still stuck around- but over time they were extreme outliers

Not me either. Other teams doing that too me....especially the excessive knee thing really chaps my hide. We do not take knees unless its the end of the game up by less than 7.

Winning assure retention no doubt but you first must have a team to retain.

Does that start from the lower levels up or can it trickle down from the upper levels is the real question. Im not sure what the right answer is.

I do think all this mercy rule stuff is age dependent. How I coach Smurfs is different on how I will coach MS aged kids only because their expectations do indeed grow as they get older...as do mine. 
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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2018, 11:30:14 AM »
Our next and last opponent will be interesting from the whole "running up the score"/sportsmanship perspective. Last season, we got up 40-0 in the first half by running Beast Blast. It's been stated by many guys on this forum that it is "impossible" to run that play over and over with success . . .  yet, it happens. A lot. Last year's mercy rule required us to "run between the tackles". No passes and no outside runs. So basically, continue to do what got you into a 40-0 lead. Run the subs? Yeah, we do that and we often go 4 and out. Does it bother me when that happens? A little, but I don't matter. It bothers the hell out of the players including the ones who are running the ball with no success. It simply pisses them off to not be successful on the field. So should we make our players feel bad to avoid making the other team feel bad? I won't do that, especially when the other team SHOULD feel bad.

One point I will not yield on is that in a 50-0 blowout, it's not the winning coaching staff who is responsible for driving kids away from the game.

Playing kids out of position? We've done that when our roster was around 20-22 players. With 33, it is a nightmare. With 30+ and patch rules, it is IMPOSSIBLE. One year, our two water skipper running backs were scoring every time they touched the ball, so they weren't going to get many plays. We put them at DE where they had something like 6 straight sacks spanning 2 defensive series. It was awesome and fun and great . . . .except for the patch player DE's who were not allowed to run the ball and got a little extra bench time while we accommodated our opponents' feelings.

Too much thought and effort to worry about the other team and it yields NOTHING for either side except that the losing coach is all smiles when he tells you how classy you are. I don't care when he says I'm an asshole (or calls my son a "bitch"), so why would I care when he's all happy. I have a philosophy about the handshake line. If the opposing coach is smiling and telling you how much he enjoys playing you, you have done something wrong. And speaking of the opposing coach in the handshake line. My 19 year old son decided not to shake hands after yesterday's game because he didn't have a chance to retrieve his coaches shirt from the other car after my daughter's graduation. He didn't feel right representing our team looking like a guy off the street. He did point out the two opposing coaches who took exception to our lack of class. One was wearing big gold chains and a Broncos jersey and the other decided to wear his best white on white track suit with big gold chains and a sideways hat. Forgive me if I ignore etiquette lessons from "Coach Eminem."

Whatever. Points against are no longer a factor for us. That ship has sailed. We will not be trying to put the other team in mercy on Wednesday. We will run our offense where every play is designed to score. Hopefully, our opponents will give us a game. Unlikely. They are too interested in walk up music, hype chants and celebration dances. Last Spring, one of their players did the "grave digger" sack thing down 50. We are going to do what we do and that will probably result in a blow out.

If you are up by 40-0 and your backups are going 4 and out a bunch- then it seems like you need to get better with your backups.
You are up 40-0  isnt that the time to take on a challenge and improve rather than just run your starters so they "dont feel bad" for not scoring on every possession. When you are up by 40 and your starters stay in that is obviously ZERO challenge whatsoever.
When my teams are up big I could care less if we score or not. The goal is to make sure everyone is playing a bunch and as many kids as possible are touching the ball.

And yes it DOES make a difference if the other team scores even when they get beat badly. High fives, fists in the air , some smiles and a giddy up back in their steps from what from our side of the field and view is a score that didnt hurt our team in any way whatsoever.

At the end of the day- in blowouts when your starters see that you care about the kids that are terrible- as much as you care about the studs- they see you care about them as people instead of just what they can do on the field. That is a mighty feeling.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill