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Author Topic: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7. G8, C  (Read 13108 times)

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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2018, 11:35:24 AM »
Not me either. Other teams doing that too me....especially the excessive knee thing really chaps my hide. We do not take knees unless its the end of the game up by less than 7.

Winning assure retention no doubt but you first must have a team to retain.

Does that start from the lower levels up or can it trickle down from the upper levels is the real question. Im not sure what the right answer is.

I do think all this mercy rule stuff is age dependent. How I coach Smurfs is different on how I will coach MS aged kids only because their expectations do indeed grow as they get older...as do mine.

Retention is team based
You get crushed every week- you arent going to retain your players
You win every week- you are going to retain your players

Again there is the once in a blue moon outlier- but my experience with 100s of teams- my own and what I see all across the country- that holds true

Why are my numbers always great and our market penetration numbers off the charts? because all my teams win
And the org I started and left in Omaha- which when I left were league champs in every "A"= best   grouping? and all the other teams with winning records- all 16 of them. 5 years later not a single winning team and instead of 16 teams, they have 4 and now dont exist at all?  Winning matters when it comes to retention
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:25:25 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2018, 11:48:16 AM »
Our next and last opponent will be interesting from the whole "running up the score"/sportsmanship perspective. Last season, we got up 40-0 in the first half by running Beast Blast. It's been stated by many guys on this forum that it is "impossible" to run that play over and over with success . . .  yet, it happens. A lot. Last year's mercy rule required us to "run between the tackles". No passes and no outside runs. So basically, continue to do what got you into a 40-0 lead. Run the subs? Yeah, we do that and we often go 4 and out. Does it bother me when that happens? A little, but I don't matter. It bothers the hell out of the players including the ones who are running the ball with no success. It simply pisses them off to not be successful on the field. So should we make our players feel bad to avoid making the other team feel bad? I won't do that, especially when the other team SHOULD feel bad.

One point I will not yield on is that in a 50-0 blowout, it's not the winning coaching staff who is responsible for driving kids away from the game.

Playing kids out of position? We've done that when our roster was around 20-22 players. With 33, it is a nightmare. With 30+ and patch rules, it is IMPOSSIBLE. One year, our two water skipper running backs were scoring every time they touched the ball, so they weren't going to get many plays.

Too much thought and effort to worry about the other team and it yields NOTHING for either side except that the losing coach is all smiles when he tells you how classy you are. I don't care when he says I'm an asshole (or calls my son a "bitch"), so why would I care when he's all happy.  They are too interested in walk up music, hype chants and celebration dances. Last Spring, one of their players did the "grave digger" sack thing down 50. We are going to do what we do and that will probably result in a blow out.

If you have 30+ easy to play kids out of position- we do have patch rules as well

There are some coaches who are out to humiliate the other coach
Im not out there to do that- and it's hard when they are a knucklehead
I concentrate on his players- not him- what I am doing is for them- not him

Not a fan of those clothes, but guess what- he might hate your tatoos. Im not going to try and humiliate a team because of what the coach wears or his tatoos etc

As to chants and all that pregame stuff never been my thing- but I thought you guys did a bunch of that stuff too?

I dont play classy so the other coach can smile and tell me- they RARELY if ever do
BUT
Maybe if he gets in the position I was in- he will act the same way- IVE SEEN THAT happen
Maybe he will embrace the- lets be there for everyone in the league- not just our own team
Im doing it for his kids- not him.
Im doing it for MY kids too. They learn about compassion and empathy- and we talk about it.

No one has to adopt my approach
I want to win as badly as anyone
But we arent going to go out to purposely try and humiliate someone or try and score as many points as possible- or shut people out in blowouts
We are a meritocrisy, we work hard and we strive for excellence- but we are going to have fun and teach some life lessons including compassion along the way
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 11:52:00 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #167 on: May 13, 2018, 12:24:39 PM »
If you are up by 40-0 and your backups are going 4 and out a bunch- then it seems like you need to get better with your backups.
Nope. Backups are scoring at will, too. These are the wide outs playing completely out of position.

Quote
You are up 40-0  isnt that the time to take on a challenge and improve rather than just run your starters so they "dont feel bad" for not scoring on every possession. When you are up by 40 and your starters stay in that is obviously ZERO challenge whatsoever.
When my teams are up big I could care less if we score or not. The goal is to make sure everyone is playing a bunch and as many kids as possible are touching the ball.
As I said, it's not that we're trying to score, but we're not trying not to score. We had a weird stretch where we were super worried about points against. That train has left the station, so we'll chat as a staff to decide how to go forward. We're no longer worried about snaps bouncing of linemen's helmets and getting returned for TDs, so I will say my piece about getting guys the ball. Many of them don't want the ball, but a few of them do. No reason not to give it to them in our last game.

Quote
And yes it DOES make a difference if the other team scores even when they get beat badly. High fives, fists in the air , some smiles and a giddy up back in their steps from what from our side of the field and view is a score that didnt hurt our team in any way whatsoever.
No problem with that, the exception being when an allowed score affects our playoff/bowl situation.

Quote
At the end of the day- in blowouts when your starters see that you care about the kids that are terrible- as much as you care about the studs- they see you care about them as people instead of just what they can do on the field. That is a mighty feeling.

They know that I care about them as people from the way I treat them as people. I showed up a the start of the 3rd quarter yesterday and it was an extremely warm feeling to be greeted by my team the way they did. This includes defensive players that I don't coach on the field. I do care about the opposing coaches, players and parents, just not during our practices or during our games. One of the things Mahonz has helped me see the last few weeks is to not blame the kids when they start getting stupid on the field. Blame the coaches. That's growth, isn't it?

I guess this is the crux of my position:  Sigh. There are a lot of BAD coaches out there. Mainly in Spring. Fall teams seem to be well coached, at least at the older levels. I've reached out to struggling guys to help them. Many of them try to run your stuff, but tell me, "We're going balanced because we're getting caught from the back side", or "We're not pulling because (insert lame excuse here)", or "we're going under center because (whatever)". Some guys simply don't value other people's experience. They will tell you that onside kicking every play is stupid, then call you a piece of sh*t when you do it successfully against them. They tell you that going for it on most 4th downs are stupid, then freak out on their team when you block their punt". They will tell you that flapjack pass will NEVER work, then get pissed when you run it against them. THEY are the problem. It's been said over and over in here that poor coaching is the biggest problem with youth football. I don't believe in sports socialism. A bad football team cannot get better if you allow them to believe they are better than they are.

I suppose that's why yesterday's opponent was so angry. They "beat" us in a scrimmage last Spring. Then, they went to Facebook after we won the top bowl game and called us out because they didn't get (they say "get", I say "earn") the opportunity to play us for "all the marbles". The league responded that the top 4 teams would play a semi final and final for the true championship (then reneged on that). So this team has been thinking since last Spring that they could have been the champs, but got shafted. They came at us sitting 3-1 with two blowout victories, 31-0 and 49-11 and I'm sure they thought they were very good. I'm sure they didn't think we were capable of putting them in the mercy rule. When they found out, they weren't happy about it. So, in that situation, you can either take a look at yourself and figure out why you were so far off on your self scout . . . or you can blame the other team for being classless. In today's America, far more people tend to choose the latter, which is why I feel that football is so important for holding that line. Accolades based on merit. Feel good about your football situation because it's earned, not because someone took it easy on you.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #168 on: May 13, 2018, 12:27:27 PM »
Nope. Backups are scoring at will, too. These are the wide outs playing completely out of position.


These are your words- in an above post:
Run the subs? Yeah, we do that and we often go 4 and out. Does it bother me when that happens? A little, but I don't matter. It bothers the hell out of the players including the ones who are running the ball with no success. It simply pisses them off to not be successful on the field. So should we make our players feel bad to avoid making the other team feel bad? I won't do that,

« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:29:45 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #169 on: May 13, 2018, 12:40:10 PM »
I don't believe in sports socialism. A bad football team cannot get better if you allow them to believe they are better than they are.

I suppose that's why yesterday's opponent was so angry. They "beat" us in a scrimmage last Spring. Then, they went to Facebook after we won the top bowl game and called us out because they didn't get (they say "get", I say "earn") the opportunity to play us for "all the marbles". The league responded that the top 4 teams would play a semi final and final for the true championship (then reneged on that). So this team has been thinking since last Spring that they could have been the champs, but got shafted. They came at us sitting 3-1 with two blowout victories, 31-0 and 49-11 and I'm sure they thought they were very good. I'm sure they didn't think we were capable of putting them in the mercy rule. When they found out, they weren't happy about it. So, in that situation, you can either take a look at yourself and figure out why you were so far off on your self scout . . . or you can blame the other team for being classless. In today's America, far more people tend to choose the latter, which is why I feel that football is so important for holding that line. Accolades based on merit. Feel good about your football situation because it's earned, not because someone took it easy on you.

Im not saying every game should end in a tie or within 7 points

What I am saying is there is NO NEED to humiliate teams to try and prove a point
The only people you are hurting are the kids on the other team

yeah- get shut out every game all season- 75% of those kids never play football again

Many youth coaches are inept and IT DOESNT MATTER what you do- they arent going to invest the time to get better- no matter if you beat them 35-12   or 66-0
Beating them into submission isnt going to change that coach one iota- and the kids move on to something different- if that is happening to them a bunch

IVE SEEN IT- empirically over many many years In my own program- before we made the switch
Teams that are getting smoked by big scores and shut out a bunch- they lose lots of kids. Then you eventually see them field fewer teams, some even fold. SEEN THAT A LOT
That is why we completely revamped our program many years ago and went to our standardized Winning Youth Football approach
SO WE COULD RETAIN MORE KIDS- by winning while having fun
Our society isnt going to be irreparably damaged if some inept team is allowed to score a few unearned touchdowns or we decide not to onside every kickoff so we win by 30 instead of 50 points
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:42:57 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Michael

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ďIf you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.Ē ― Albert Einstein

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6
« Reply #171 on: May 13, 2018, 04:41:09 PM »
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/punt_yds_per_punt_single_season.htm

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/punt-yds-per-punt-player-season.html

Yep. One of the semi pro players I worked with that was our punter hosted camps that this young man attended while in MS. All for not though once he got sucked in by other things in HS. 

Check this out....a cell phone vid of the 45 yard FG from yesterday. He would have made it from 55 right down the middle. This kid could get a scholarship tomorrow !

On Wednesday we are going to give him his shot at 50+. He has hit from 60 in practice on air. A true phenom.

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #172 on: May 13, 2018, 05:06:11 PM »
Retention is team based
You get crushed every week- you arent going to retain your players
You win every week- you are going to retain your players

Again there is the once in a blue moon outlier- but my experience with 100s of teams- my own and what I see all across the country- that holds true

Why are my numbers always great and our market penetration numbers off the charts? because all my teams win
And the org I started and left in Omaha- which when I left were league champs in every "A"= best   grouping? and all the other teams with winning records- all 16 of them. 5 years later not a single winning team and instead of 16 teams, they have 4 and now dont exist at all?  Winning matters when it comes to retention

Truly the only fix is if every youth Org was run by an individual like yourself that owns and is in charge of everything.

When an Org is run by the revolving door of volunteers....many that sign up with hidden agendas....not a blueprint for continued success.

My personal take from sitting on many different Boards....its the Boards that directly ruin the experience for the kids. Sounds crazy since probably 50% of all participants never even know who their Board is. Your participants...every last one of them...knows full well who runs the Show.

This discussion reminds me of my first to worst experience about 10 years ago. This team went 11-0 as 7th graders then 0-8 as 8th graders. That 8th grade season was one of my most memorable. A true Band of Brothers. Taught me a lot as well. Taught me that a poor Board can quite easily crap the bed and directly change the dynamics of your team in no time.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #173 on: May 13, 2018, 05:07:59 PM »
These are your words- in an above post:
Run the subs? Yeah, we do that and we often go 4 and out. Does it bother me when that happens? A little, but I don't matter. It bothers the hell out of the players including the ones who are running the ball with no success. It simply pisses them off to not be successful on the field. So should we make our players feel bad to avoid making the other team feel bad? I won't do that,

Poor word choice. Forgive me. Our backups score at will on these teams. Itís our WRs who struggle. Iíve thought about it many times, but always come to the same conclusion.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #174 on: May 13, 2018, 05:15:06 PM »
If you have 30+ easy to play kids out of position- we do have patch rules as well

There are some coaches who are out to humiliate the other coach
Im not out there to do that- and it's hard when they are a knucklehead
I concentrate on his players- not him- what I am doing is for them- not him

Not a fan of those clothes, but guess what- he might hate your tatoos. Im not going to try and humiliate a team because of what the coach wears or his tatoos etc

As to chants and all that pregame stuff never been my thing- but I thought you guys did a bunch of that stuff too?

I dont play classy so the other coach can smile and tell me- they RARELY if ever do
BUT
Maybe if he gets in the position I was in- he will act the same way- IVE SEEN THAT happen
Maybe he will embrace the- lets be there for everyone in the league- not just our own team
Im doing it for his kids- not him.
Im doing it for MY kids too. They learn about compassion and empathy- and we talk about it.

No one has to adopt my approach
I want to win as badly as anyone
But we arent going to go out to purposely try and humiliate someone or try and score as many points as possible- or shut people out in blowouts
We are a meritocrisy, we work hard and we strive for excellence- but we are going to have fun and teach some life lessons including compassion along the way

Curious. You built a very successful Software Company if I remember correctly. An Industry that for me would seem quite cut throat.

I've been in Construction, an Industry that is most certainly cut throat.

I learned early on that in order to survive I has to out do everything my competitors were doing too include some dirty pool at times. 

This post sounds like the only Life lesson you are teaching is how to be eaten by others?  Is that because your are in a different stage in your life now?

Just an observation.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 05:24:08 PM by mahonz »
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #175 on: May 13, 2018, 05:31:56 PM »


I guess this is the crux of my position:  Sigh. There are a lot of BAD coaches out there. Mainly in Spring. Fall teams seem to be well coached, at least at the older levels. I've reached out to struggling guys to help them. Many of them try to run your stuff, but tell me, "We're going balanced because we're getting caught from the back side", or "We're not pulling because (insert lame excuse here)", or "we're going under center because (whatever)". Some guys simply don't value other people's experience. They will tell you that onside kicking every play is stupid, then call you a piece of sh*t when you do it successfully against them. They tell you that going for it on most 4th downs are stupid, then freak out on their team when you block their punt". They will tell you that flapjack pass will NEVER work, then get pissed when you run it against them. THEY are the problem. It's been said over and over in here that poor coaching is the biggest problem with youth football. I don't believe in sports socialism. A bad football team cannot get better if you allow them to believe they are better than they are.

I suppose that's why yesterday's opponent was so angry. They "beat" us in a scrimmage last Spring. Then, they went to Facebook after we won the top bowl game and called us out because they didn't get (they say "get", I say "earn") the opportunity to play us for "all the marbles". The league responded that the top 4 teams would play a semi final and final for the true championship (then reneged on that). So this team has been thinking since last Spring that they could have been the champs, but got shafted. They came at us sitting 3-1 with two blowout victories, 31-0 and 49-11 and I'm sure they thought they were very good. I'm sure they didn't think we were capable of putting them in the mercy rule. When they found out, they weren't happy about it. So, in that situation, you can either take a look at yourself and figure out why you were so far off on your self scout . . . or you can blame the other team for being classless. In today's America, far more people tend to choose the latter, which is why I feel that football is so important for holding that line. Accolades based on merit. Feel good about your football situation because it's earned, not because someone took it easy on you.

Probably one of the most accurate assessments of youth sports in general ever written.

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #176 on: May 13, 2018, 05:42:04 PM »
If you are up by 40-0 and your backups are going 4 and out a bunch- then it seems like you need to get better with your backups.
You are up 40-0  isnt that the time to take on a challenge and improve rather than just run your starters so they "dont feel bad" for not scoring on every possession. When you are up by 40 and your starters stay in that is obviously ZERO challenge whatsoever.
When my teams are up big I could care less if we score or not. The goal is to make sure everyone is playing a bunch and as many kids as possible are touching the ball.

And yes it DOES make a difference if the other team scores even when they get beat badly. High fives, fists in the air , some smiles and a giddy up back in their steps from what from our side of the field and view is a score that didnt hurt our team in any way whatsoever.

At the end of the day- in blowouts when your starters see that you care about the kids that are terrible- as much as you care about the studs- they see you care about them as people instead of just what they can do on the field. That is a mighty feeling.

Maybe this is why you are scratching your head over this.

A full 2 platoon team has no "backups" in the traditional sense.

We use rotator's with a very defined system so that every position gets pretty much the same amount of playing time. So when up big....or even down big....we simply cant play our "backups" because they have already been playing.

You mentioned playing your 3rd or 4th string at a position...we dont even use a 2nd string.

So...we use 2 DB's so 3 kids will play those 2 positions for the entire game almost equally. 3 kids will play the two DE positions and rotate equally....5 kids will play the 4 backfield positions on Offense and rotate equally....and so on.

If we start playing kids out of position....who gets the shaft?
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #177 on: May 13, 2018, 06:00:48 PM »
DP

You did the CNN thing and didnt put the whole quote in there

--"CNN thing?  Not sure what you're referencing.

In order for the game to survive- we take care of our team first- but we need to legitimately look at doing what we can to help the other team have a reasonable experience as well

--As for my responsibility to the "other team..."  I have given freely of my time, videos, Powerpoints, handouts and advice to help the "other team."  I have done this both in season, and out, for years.  What they do with my "help" is their business.

All of the excuse making "I dont want my kids to get hurt or I dont want to patronize the other team" is absolute hogwash.

--I don't know what the "I don't want my kids to get hurt" means.  I've never said that, or held it as a personal philosophy.  As for patronizing the other team, I will only treat others the way that I hope to be treated.  And I've provided several examples over the years where I've asked my superior opponent to not take it easy on us, or to put on the brakes.  I do not ask for or give a quarter.

Want the game to survive? Care about all the teams you play and your league

--Agree.  Which is why I've done pretty much everything I know how to do in order to help coaches and players.

And yes 28-7 is much better than  56-0 and having your offense only on the field for a handful of snaps

--If I win 56-0, then it's far more likely that my defense is on the field for only a handful of snaps.

--DP

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Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #178 on: May 13, 2018, 06:05:34 PM »
Curious. You built a very successful Software Company if I remember correctly. An Industry that for me would seem quite cut throat.

I've been in Construction, an Industry that is most certainly cut throat.

I learned early on that in order to survive I has to out do everything my competitors were doing too include some dirty pool at times. 

This post sounds like the only Life lesson you are teaching is how to be eaten by others?  Is that because your are in a different stage in your life now?

Just an observation.

Not at all

I didnt think of my business as cut throat
We LOOKED at the competition and positioned ourselves in a niche we thought would work and that we could execute on

We then put in a proccess that was unique and we worked extremely hard
When you focus on serving your customers while approaching your employees as customers as well and work really hard, over time very good things usually happen
We didnt worry so much about competitors- we did things a bit different
We focused on us and our customers- employees
And we had fun- cared about each other

We never cut corners in business
We dont do it in football either

In football Im playing to win
But winning to us includes a significant metric of retention- which winning the game helps a bunch

In youth ball you can win, play by the rules, have fun and retain kids- it isnt mutually exclusive at all if you know how to do it
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: My Fall 2018 Spring Season - Final Edition G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6, G7
« Reply #179 on: May 13, 2018, 06:07:37 PM »
Poor word choice. Forgive me. Our backups score at will on these teams. Itís our WRs who struggle. Iíve thought about it many times, but always come to the same conclusion.

Ok

So let the WRs run the ball or non striped linemen

Your linemen learn how to maintain their blocks longer
You dont score as quickly- which you said is the main problem with holding the other teams from scoring

Really simple to do- not score if anyone is serious about it
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill