Author Topic: Influence Blocks  (Read 379 times)

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Online spidermac

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Influence Blocks
« on: May 17, 2018, 12:26:33 PM »
So a few seasons ago, my son introduced me to influence blocks...he wanted to teach the boys how to use them, he explained it to me, and I said no...he became insistent, so I said, okay, but if they don't grab ahold of it quickly, we move on (only 3 practices a week :)).

Essentially, the olineman will open a path for the defender to go through, and it is the way we want him to go...it doesn't require that the blocker destroy his man, just getting him going the way we want him to, and get in the way, by then, the ball is gone...

Our boys didn't grab onto it, maybe we did not teach it properly?

Does anyone use this? How do you teach it?
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 02:49:58 PM »
So a few seasons ago, my son introduced me to influence blocks...he wanted to teach the boys how to use them, he explained it to me, and I said no...he became insistent, so I said, okay, but if they don't grab ahold of it quickly, we move on (only 3 practices a week :)).

Essentially, the olineman will open a path for the defender to go through, and it is the way we want him to go...it doesn't require that the blocker destroy his man, just getting him going the way we want him to, and get in the way, by then, the ball is gone...

Our boys didn't grab onto it, maybe we did not teach it properly?

Does anyone use this? How do you teach it?

Mahonz was doing it a few seasons ago. Varying degrees of success.
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Online spidermac

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 02:55:30 PM »
Mahonz was doing it a few seasons ago. Varying degrees of success.

Well at the end of the day, pass pro can be seen as an influence block, we did use some of the "influence block" concept in teaching pass pro, but it just didn't translate well to the run game...
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 02:59:08 PM »
Well at the end of the day, pass pro can be seen as an influence block, we did use some of the "influence block" concept in teaching pass pro, but it just didn't translate well to the run game...

It really depended on the kid. That's what I seem to remember. It was a bucket step, "lose ground to gain ground" type of thing. Some of the slower and/or lazier players would get smoked right off the bucket step.
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Online mahonz

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 03:06:16 PM »
Mahonz was doing it a few seasons ago. Varying degrees of success.

Influence steps....is this the same thing?
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Online spidermac

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 03:17:16 PM »
Influence steps....is this the same thing?

Yeah, the first part of the "influence block" is the influence step, inviting him in
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Offline Michael

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 04:07:33 PM »
There's a great story from one of the KC O-Lineman about Super Bowl IV.

Apparently the O-Lineman pulled and Alan Page or someone followed across on the defensive side, and Mike Garrett ran through the hole that was left.

The O-Lineman said something like, "It only works against a smart team.  We tried it against the Raiders and the D-Lineman just stayed there and Garrett just got drilled."
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Offline Vince148

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 09:34:41 AM »
Green Bay had a "sucker" play that they used against Dallas in the "Ice Bowl".
check at the 1:50 mark
https://youtu.be/J1YgxWWBt3o

Offline ZACH

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 12:06:12 PM »
So a few seasons ago, my son introduced me to influence blocks...he wanted to teach the boys how to use them, he explained it to me, and I said no...he became insistent, so I said, okay, but if they don't grab ahold of it quickly, we move on (only 3 practices a week :)).

Essentially, the olineman will open a path for the defender to go through, and it is the way we want him to go...it doesn't require that the blocker destroy his man, just getting him going the way we want him to, and get in the way, by then, the ball is gone...

Our boys didn't grab onto it, maybe we did not teach it properly?

Does anyone use this? How do you teach it?

A trap with out a partner or kick

I only knew influence blocking in 2 schemes... del wing t "gut" tag on 20 series...and on west coast offense double screen scheme

If you plan to use this i agree with michaels post...you only use this when people follow blockers/lineman...wing t does it to catch you reading guards...west coast...reading high hat for screen or pass.

Better off trying to make them better blockers in a simple scheme opposed to lesser blockers in a complicated scheme...
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Offline Coach Correa

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2018, 10:10:14 PM »
We call it the trick .We influence often with our wb ctr to open side and sally play. I make this short and sweet. Picture standard  Red / Blue (Delaware terms) against an odd front. Against an odd we  get a 4 tech on our tackle  and a ghost 9. In that situation we have to do something were out numbered 2 to 1. So we tag trick trick tells  open side tackle to pass set the 4 and turnout on the 9 so we can draw the 4 up field and blast him with pulling guard works everytime and very easy to install.
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Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2018, 09:35:43 AM »
The influence block I know is having an OL pull away from where the ball is going to influence the OL and maybe the DL to chase him.

For example, the Wing-T has an "Influence Trap" adjustment for smart teams who key Gs hard.  On the Influence Trap, the PSG will open and pull outside while the BSG will pull around and trap a DL.  If done at the right time, this pulls the PSLB out and makes the PSDT widen and become much easier to trap--at times, you won't even need to trap him at all.

These are not really things you will get much use out of at the youth level unless you're playing one incredibly well coached team who's even a little robotic in following their keys.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2018, 11:08:09 AM »
Does anyone use this? How do you teach it?
I'd love to if I were confident that it'd work with the degree of sophistic'n of the player(s) I was coaching.  I asked here a few yrs. ago whether kids a certain age were susceptible to influence, & got a "yes" answer, but I suspect bias toward seeing greater sophistic'n in the players one coaches.

How you teach it depends on the situation.  There's the gen'l concept of an influence block, & then there are particular influence blocks.  If you have a certain move that consistently sets up the opponent, those are the steps you simulate.  It does no good to fake a block that doesn't go w any of your plays.  Influence is established by the combination of backfield action & blocking.

An influence "block" can be as simple as a wrong-way pull.  That's not actually a block at all, but you're hoping to pull one or more opponents w you.

The more common type of influence block is where you step a certain way to get your body on a certain side of the opponent, because that's the way you block them much of the time, but then you alter course & wind up blocking them on the other side, because that's the way the play's gong this time.  You hope the opponent's going to try to fight the usual block, & thereby put himself off balance to fight the way you really want to move him.

A frequent scenario: fanning out on the DE vs. hooking him.  A DE may be impossible to hook unless he's influenced by a step to the inside of him, and that's going to work because you've been running inside him.

But the question is, are you playing w kids who are fast & sharp enough that their rxns like this matter?  If not, your influence blocker may just be influencing himself out of the play, and the slower or less sophisticated opponent gets the gift of an easy path to beat the block to the POA.  It's the same sort of consider'n as to whether you should have a trap play.

Still, if you think you'll be coaching the same kids for several seasons, previewing for them a skill that may become tactically useful only a yr. or more hence could still be rewarding if you have the time.

P.S., here's an example of influence I wanted to use in my offense.  On the fly/jet run, the play side OL take their 1st step as a flat reach.  Their 2nd step is a crossover ending in a crab block.  What I'm hoping to set up is an inside run, where the 1st step looks nearly identical to the reach, but then the 2nd step results in an angle block into the DL.

I think if you use a certain type of play enough (which may be an awful lot), even beginning opponents are going to become susceptible to its influence.

BTW, why is this under Zone Blocking?  If there were any scheme influence wouldn't seem to fit, it'd be zone blocking.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:40:35 PM by Bob Goodman »

Online spidermac

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:49:37 AM »
It's under zone blocking because I use a zone blocking scheme :)

If I remember correctly, we (my son and I) were working influence on the back side defenders...we set it aside for time considerations, we had other stuff we needed to work on. I guess I need to pick my son's brain some more :)
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Influence Blocks
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 12:17:25 PM »
It's under zone blocking because I use a zone blocking scheme :)

If I remember correctly, we (my son and I) were working influence on the back side defenders.
I'm interested in learning about that.  How were you trying to do it, and for what purpose?

BTW, the one time I remember seeing influence blocking practiced was a few yrs. ago when I watched the Truman HS varsity practice on the field we weren't allowed to use but whose gym we did.  It was a non-contact drill in team, and the OT IIRC didn't even take an influence step, but just rocked forward from his stance into the "wrong way" space inside the DE, then rocked back & stepped "correct side" outside the DE's far hip.  Presumably if the contact were made it'd be cross-body/crab.